A Question for Atheists..

[SomeRandom]

Peace be upon you everybody!

I have seen a lot of atheists here on the forums, but honestly I expected to see believer not atheists; as this site is called "religious forums", but anyway I've had a really interesting question for those who don't believe in after life and think that Its all fake, and as my communist friend once said (Karl Marx) "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

- Let's all assume that this is correct.
that after life is all fake and atheists were correct after all.. nature created the universe, planets, sun, human beings, animals, birds, Everything..but then would it really matter for believers?
20 minutes is the average time that a believer "wastes" everyday to pray, and worship his/her God, a very humble number that never compares to the hours that we all admit to waste on social media and random stuff, if believers are wrong.. Are they sincerely going to be regretful for those "wasted" minutes everyday?
I don't think so.

- Now, Lets assume the opposite.. that after life was true and that there is a single God who created this whole universe, what are atheists going to say then? What are atheists going to say when Heaven and Hell are revealed? and that only those who believed in God will go to heaven and others will not.

To any atheist reading this, I know that pride and dignity are your divine principles, but they won't do anything for you if believers were correct, they won't have any value if you find out that afterlife was true, consider both situations to happen, personally as a believer myself I would never feel ashamed if my beliefs were incorrect, I would never feel ashamed because I would just die and that's it. No afterlife!

For you atheists If believers were to be correct about Heaven, Hell, Afterlife, God, What would you do/say then?

Meh, Pascal’s Wager, as others have pointed out. I’m not even an Atheist (per se) and I side with them on this one.
I agree with Marx on the opium of the masses quote.
Religion is a tool, a tool to give comfort, a tool to explain the unknown. A tool for control.
Although some theists prefer to go their own path.
Religion is really about conquering death and I can’t help but notice that all flavours offer some kind of out. Humans are naturally afraid of death, so there is a lot of appeal. Not that that is why all theists are theists, of course. Just a casual observation.

Atheists are usually very agreeable and I find I am able to get along with them better than with my theist friends/family. Perhaps because I find them to be intellectually honest and robust. They are keenly logical and that appeals to me.
But theism is not. Which is fine, at least in my path that is. Although the end goal as it were is to break down the barriers religion creates.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Peace be upon you everybody!

I have seen a lot of atheists here on the forums, but honestly I expected to see believer not atheists; as this site is called "religious forums", but anyway I've had a really interesting question for those who don't believe in after life and think that Its all fake, and as my communist friend once said (Karl Marx) "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

- Let's all assume that this is correct.
that after life is all fake and atheists were correct after all.. nature created the universe, planets, sun, human beings, animals, birds, Everything..but then would it really matter for believers?
20 minutes is the average time that a believer "wastes" everyday to pray, and worship his/her God, a very humble number that never compares to the hours that we all admit to waste on social media and random stuff, if believers are wrong.. Are they sincerely going to be regretful for those "wasted" minutes everyday?
I don't think so.

- Now, Lets assume the opposite.. that after life was true and that there is a single God who created this whole universe, what are atheists going to say then? What are atheists going to say when Heaven and Hell are revealed? and that only those who believed in God will go to heaven and others will not.

To any atheist reading this, I know that pride and dignity are your divine principles, but they won't do anything for you if believers were correct, they won't have any value if you find out that afterlife was true, consider both situations to happen, personally as a believer myself I would never feel ashamed if my beliefs were incorrect, I would never feel ashamed because I would just die and that's it. No afterlife!

For you atheists If believers were to be correct about Heaven, Hell, Afterlife, God, What would you do/say then?

This is nothing but Pascal's Wager. Don't feel like answering that again. It's been done to death.

 

[Kooky]

I would find it very cruel for some god or goddess to punish me for eternity
Simply for not believing something I would have no reason to believe.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Meh... And what would you or I say if we died and woke up in Hel (the pagan nordic after life)? What if we woke up and found ourselves crossing the bridge of judgement in Zoroastrianism? What if we were reincarnated and lived another life entirely?

There's a whole lot of what ifs and not a whole lot of anything of substance. Until there is, I'll just wait and see until something more concrete comes along. If god wants to punish me for trying to seek the truth to the best of my ability, then he's a tyrant, and I dont kiss the rings of tyrants.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Peace be upon you everybody!

I have seen a lot of atheists here on the forums, but honestly I expected to see believer not atheists; as this site is called "religious forums", but anyway I've had a really interesting question for those who don't believe in after life and think that Its all fake, and as my communist friend once said (Karl Marx) "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

- Let's all assume that this is correct.
that after life is all fake and atheists were correct after all.. nature created the universe, planets, sun, human beings, animals, birds, Everything..but then would it really matter for believers?
20 minutes is the average time that a believer "wastes" everyday to pray, and worship his/her God, a very humble number that never compares to the hours that we all admit to waste on social media and random stuff, if believers are wrong.. Are they sincerely going to be regretful for those "wasted" minutes everyday?
I don't think so.

- Now, Lets assume the opposite.. that after life was true and that there is a single God who created this whole universe, what are atheists going to say then? What are atheists going to say when Heaven and Hell are revealed? and that only those who believed in God will go to heaven and others will not.

To any atheist reading this, I know that pride and dignity are your divine principles, but they won't do anything for you if believers were correct, they won't have any value if you find out that afterlife was true, consider both situations to happen, personally as a believer myself I would never feel ashamed if my beliefs were incorrect, I would never feel ashamed because I would just die and that's it. No afterlife!

For you atheists If believers were to be correct about Heaven, Hell, Afterlife, God, What would you do/say then?

I've always found this line of reasoning to be truly baffling. It's as if theist have a 'belief' switch in their brain that they can just flip on or off at will. I can't just 'decide' to believe something for which I've seen no evidenced to warrant my belief. Just because you tell me that wonderful things will happen to me if I do believe and horrible things will happen if I don't doesn't mean that I can sudden believe in your claim without evidence.

Theist who make this argument make it sound as if it doesn't matter if you TRULY believe. All you've got to do is go through the motions and your 'covered'.

 

[blü 2]

Peace be upon you everybody!

Thank you. And to you!

Let's all assume that this is correct.
that after life is all fake and atheists were correct after all.. nature created the universe, planets, sun, human beings, animals, birds, Everything..but then would it really matter for believers?

No, not if they don't think it should. Except in times of grief, I suspect most people don't give it much thought ─ well, not the ones I know, anyway.

20 minutes is the average time that a believer "wastes" everyday to pray, and worship his/her God, a very humble number that never compares to the hours that we all admit to waste on social media and random stuff, if believers are wrong.. Are they sincerely going to be regretful for those "wasted" minutes everyday?

Again, if that suits them, brings them comfort or a sense of order, why not?

Some of them will have questions and doubts at times, of course, but that's a slightly different question.

Now, Lets assume the opposite.. that after life was true and that there is a single God who created this whole universe, what are atheists going to say then? What are atheists going to say when Heaven and Hell are revealed? and that only those who believed in God will go to heaven and others will not.

I'll say to the judge that as I got older ─ matured, is perhaps a more kindly word ─ I tried to make it a general rule to treat others with decency, respect and inclusion (not including fundamentalists when they teach their children nonsense, of course, but the deity, being very wise, will agree that this distresses [him] too).

To any atheist reading this, I know that pride and dignity are your divine principles

Unbelievers tend not to have divine principles, but pride and dignity have their proper place, and I trust you're not lacking in pride and dignity.

they won't have any value if you find out that afterlife was true

No, that conclusion clearly follows from your premises. But (as the Buddha said) if there's an afterlife and if the powers that rule it are just, then if you've lived a life of reasonable decency you should have nothing to fear.

And from the unbeliever's point of view, it's not as though any god has gone to any trouble to demonstrate his, her or their existence in reality ─ indeed, the failure of all of them to do so is notorious ─ so, just as you suggest, an afterlife would be something of an ambush anyway.

For you atheists If believers were to be correct about Heaven, Hell, Afterlife, God, What would you do/say then?

What I said above (though I'm an igtheist, not an atheist).

Adding this ─ that any God who sent postmortal souls to torment instead of Soul Hospital is a morally bankrupt psychopath.

 

[Clara Tea]

1. If we assume....atheists were correct after all.. nature created the universe, planets, sun, humans.
2. ashamed if my beliefs were incorrect

I cut the quote to two points that I want to discuss.

Point 1:
Atheists, by definition, don't believe in God. Though it might be reasonably assumed that they believe that nature created everything, that is not part of the definition. Could it be that some atheists think that something else created everything (or some things?)?
Point 2:
There are many ways of being incorrect about God. A theist might be wrong if he/she believes in the wrong God. There are many different religions in the world, and in most of them God is jealous. It is conceivable that a theist might be wrong in following God's rules (supports war, for example). Presumably and good atheist could not get into heaven. But doesn't it seem as though an atheist could follow in the path of Jesus without believing in God nor Jesus?

 

[Mock Turtle]

Peace be upon you everybody!

I have seen a lot of atheists here on the forums, but honestly I expected to see believer not atheists; as this site is called "religious forums", but anyway I've had a really interesting question for those who don't believe in after life and think that Its all fake, and as my communist friend once said (Karl Marx) "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

- Let's all assume that this is correct.
that after life is all fake and atheists were correct after all.. nature created the universe, planets, sun, human beings, animals, birds, Everything..but then would it really matter for believers?
20 minutes is the average time that a believer "wastes" everyday to pray, and worship his/her God, a very humble number that never compares to the hours that we all admit to waste on social media and random stuff, if believers are wrong.. Are they sincerely going to be regretful for those "wasted" minutes everyday?
I don't think so.

But you know that this isn't everything about such a belief, not by a long way. Whatever religious belief you have tends to dictate your life (to varying extents and quite a lot for many Muslims), such that the prayers are a very small part of having such beliefs. Beliefs in God usually come from accepting some particular religious doctrine, although not always, such that it is the acceptance of what that religion espouses that one tends to take onboard as well as the God belief.

- Now, Lets assume the opposite.. that after life was true and that there is a single God who created this whole universe, what are atheists going to say then? What are atheists going to say when Heaven and Hell are revealed? and that only those who believed in God will go to heaven and others will not.

What will you say if your religion is not the truthful one (no Heaven or Hell, for example)? Are you prepared for that?

To any atheist reading this, I know that pride and dignity are your divine principles, but they won't do anything for you if believers were correct, they won't have any value if you find out that afterlife was true, consider both situations to happen, personally as a believer myself I would never feel ashamed if my beliefs were incorrect, I would never feel ashamed because I would just die and that's it. No afterlife!

For you atheists If believers were to be correct about Heaven, Hell, Afterlife, God, What would you do/say then?

Not sure where you got the pride and dignity from, but truthfulness tends to be what most atheists probably strive for, and where they are just not so accepting of religious texts as so many of the religious are. Plus the fact that they will likely have many other reasons for their lack of belief.

If an afterlife were true then that would be a bonus - if one had lead a life no different from having a belief in God. But how do you fare when you know that your religion is in opposition to so many other religious beliefs and those with none, and where such beliefs might have harmed others? And this isn't just Islam, as many other faiths have similar problems.

 

[ChristineM]

1) They will start praying to God ... a little bit delayed

No, i for one will be asking some very difficult question such as. What's the gig with childhood leukaemia?

2) They will accept their fate (God's Gift to them)

Accept the evidence is a more realistic expression

 

[viole]

and that only those who believed in God will go to heaven and others will not.

And what would you say if you chose to pray the wrong God, and the right one will send you to Hell?
We will both find ourself in Hell, but you would have wasted a whole lot of time during your life. So, I win.

Alternatively, it is even possible that God will send believers in Hell and atheists in Heaven. Who can say? Without evidence, everything is possible. Maybe God, for being so smart and all, despises who believes in things without evidence, and He is hiding so well to test exactly that. A sort of quality control of His creation.

What would you say then? Your answer would be my answer to your question.

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

To any atheist reading this, I know that pride and dignity are your divine principles,

Since we are atheists, I am not sure how we could possibly hold divine principles.

And second, at least in my case, I would say reason is the main cause of my atheism. Not pride, nor dignity; which are completely irrelevant to realise what appears to be obvious to me.

Ciao

- viole

 

[stvdv]

No, i for one will be asking some very difficult question such as. What's the gig with childhood leukaemia?

My experience has been, that "when Heaven and Hell is revealed", that I had no more questions to ask

Accept the evidence is a more realistic expression

I was just answering the hypothetical question ... I don't believe that Hell exists

 

[ChristineM]

My experience has been, that "when Heaven and Hell is revealed", that I had no more questions to ask

So how are these hypothetical places rerevealed? This i would love to know.

I was just answering the hypothetical question ... I don't believe that Hell exists

You are not atheist and have no idea how an atheist would answer. To state "they would" implies you speak from knowledge. "I believe they would" or "IMO" would me more honest answers

 

[stvdv]

You are not atheist and have no idea how an atheist would answer. To state "they would" implies you speak from knowledge. "I believe they would" or "IMO" would me more honest answers

I have IMHO under all my messages as a footer

 

[ChristineM]

I have IMHO under all my messages as a footer

View attachment 46652

Not on post #20 on either my phone or tablet

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yet another summary of Pascal's Wager? Sorry, it doesn't work. If one version of God exists, all the believers in other Gods are bad off. So, the best thing is to be truthful and honest and state clearly what and why you believe.

Also, you are you saying that just praying, without actually believing, would be acceptable? if not, then it is NOT just a bit of wasted time. You need to *actually believe*. And, in the absence of evidence, I simply don't have that belief.

If I am wrong, I will admit I am wrong. If you have evidence, please present it. Otherwise, there is no more reason to think *your* version of God is correct than the versions worshiped by the Aztecs. And I if either of is wrong and the Aztecs were right, we are both in deep trouble.

That is not necessarily true. Please learn to be skeptical of your own thinking, before you demand of others.
If one version of God exists, all the believers in other Gods are bad off. So since you can be skeptical, right?!! Then what is the hidden assumption in your If, then.
If you can't do it, you can ignore this post or you can ask me.

 

[stvdv]

Not on post #20 on either my phone or tablet

That's not my mistake. IF you use laptop/computer, you will see all information including signature[footer] as in the picture below (also post #20)

 

[stvdv]

Not on post #20 on either my phone or tablet

My smartphone does not show signatures (even if below settings under preferences are correct)
Tablet I don't have, so I don't know. Has a larger screen, so might depend on the size of the tablet

And you could check your preferences to check if people's "signatures" are shown [see picture below]

 

[ChristineM]

That's not my mistake. IF you use laptop/computer, you will see all information including signature[footer] as in the picture below (also post #20)

View attachment 46656

You create a footer that is not visible on a devices that are used to view RF then yes, that is your problem

And also. You cannot expect others to set their software to suite your preference. Unless you advise that settings must be changed to view your disclaimer

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You create a footer that is not visible on a devices that are used to view RF then yes, that is your problem

In your humble opinion, right?