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Featured A Question for Atheists..

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Loaai, Jan 5, 2021.

  1. Loaai

    Loaai A Logical Scientific Philosopher.

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    Peace be upon you everybody!

    I have seen a lot of atheists here on the forums, but honestly I expected to see believer not atheists; as this site is called "religious forums", but anyway I've had a really interesting question for those who don't believe in after life and think that Its all fake, and as my communist friend once said (Karl Marx) "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

    - Let's all assume that this is correct.
    that after life is all fake and atheists were correct after all.. nature created the universe, planets, sun, human beings, animals, birds, Everything..but then would it really matter for believers?
    20 minutes is the average time that a believer "wastes" everyday to pray, and worship his/her God, a very humble number that never compares to the hours that we all admit to waste on social media and random stuff, if believers are wrong.. Are they sincerely going to be regretful for those "wasted" minutes everyday?

    I don't think so.

    - Now, Lets assume the opposite.. that after life was true and that there is a single God who created this whole universe, what are atheists going to say then? What are atheists going to say when Heaven and Hell are revealed? and that only those who believed in God will go to heaven and others will not.

    To any atheist reading this, I know that pride and dignity are your divine principles, but they won't do anything for you if believers were correct, they won't have any value if you find out that afterlife was true, consider both situations to happen, personally as a believer myself I would never feel ashamed if my beliefs were incorrect, I would never feel ashamed because I would just die and that's it. No afterlife!


    For you atheists If believers were to be correct about Heaven, Hell, Afterlife, God, What would you do/say then?
     
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  2. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    Well... if believers are wrong, there will be no "time" to worry about anything wasted throughout life. So many believers talk as if there is an afterlife EVEN WHEN ASSUMING THERE IS NO AFTERLIFE! It is hilarious. Like you just can't even grasp the idea of oblivion. There is no you. There is nothing to "be." There is no perceiving. There is no "regret." Nothing. A popular way to try and get people to contemplate it is to ask them to picture what it was like before they were born. That's what it would be like. It isn't even "like" anything. There is no "anything," there is no "comparing." Get it?

    I would say to "God" or "The Judge":
    "Well... you at least understand why I didn't believe, right? I mean... RIGHT??!!?"
     
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  3. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

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    This isn't specific to you (have to reply later) but I suggest the OP be switched to religious debates.
     
  4. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Salaam ...

    The same thing I would do/say upon encountering a unicorn.
     
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  5. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Ok, so far i have seen no evidence that a god exists or that there is an afterlife. But if im a wrong and on the remote chance that a god says "sorry but its hell for you" i think that hell would be preferable to a place run by a genocidal maniac who kills innocent children, condones rape and slavery.

    Lets face it, i have been to worse places here on earth.

    Oh and I don't have divine principals, i have ordinary principals just like any other human being
     
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  6. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    This is just Pascal's Wager. It's not generally accepted by atheists because:

    1. It assumes a false binary. It isn't atheism or your religion, it's atheism and thousands of religions with different ideas about gods and afterlives. I don't see any more reason to believe Christian or Jewish or Muslim beliefs about it are more worthy than Asartu or Hindu or Hellenists or Wiccans.

    2. It assumes atheism is chosen. I'm not an atheist because I choose to be. I'm an atheist because I haven't been convinced by any claims of gods. I can't choose to be a theist just because someone argues 'it would be better for me.'

    3. It assumes lip service would be rewarded. Since we established that I don't actually believe gods exist and the only reason given by Pascal's wager is avoid punishment/get reward, we can safely say that this behavior is insincere. Not because of love of God or mankind but because of selfish motivation. Most gods are against that sort of thing. So there's no point in trying to carrot or stick afterlife claims to an atheist.

    4. It assumes irreligious (which aren't always atheist or theist) have no more objection to religious ritual than just waste of time. Rather than systematic oppression of out-tribal groups religious people often participate in: i.e. persecution of gays and trans for no better reason than 'my religion told me to.'

    5. Lastly, it assumes that you should be seeking approval from a god is a value that every theist has. Lots of theists don't believe their god or gods seek your approval. And lots of atheists, like myself, don't believe in authoritarianism and don't believe 'because I said so' is an acceptable answer. Hence why the so-called 'atheist wager' exists.
    It goes like this:
     
    #6 ADigitalArtist, Jan 5, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2021
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  7. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    What would you do, if when you die and the god is revealed, but you have been worshiping the wrong god?

    As an atheist I'd say something like. "There wasn't much evidence"
     
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  8. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    "If' arguments are fallacy, as they can be reversed so easily, (Try it, you'll see) Have we not had enough of this atheist/theist simplistic accusations?
    "You're the dumb one!"
    "No, you're the dumb one!"
     
  9. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
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    Thread moved from interfaith discussion to religious debates

    Adrian on behalf of the moderation team
     
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  10. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
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    Why do you assume one has to be a believer in God or a deity to believe one continues on after death of the body and mind?
     
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  11. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Well that be nice. I get to live forever afterall and all the good things I have done in life for the pure and simple pleasure of doin nice things actually provide me with some benefits. What is there to lose?
     
  12. icehorse

    icehorse Veteran Member
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    I, and almost all the atheists I know, would be happy to change our minds if solid, verifiable, repeatable evidence of a god was provided :)

    For me, I feel the same way about religious gods as I do pink unicorns. I don't think they exist, but if you show me one, I'll happily change my mind :)
     
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  13. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    I say-
    Your last paragraph is insulting garbage followed up with a clunky version of Pascals wager.
     
  14. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

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    I read fine up until here. This sounds like an accusation.

    1. Majority of atheist really don't care what believers believe as long as they are not hurting other people.

    2. If the afterlife is real, so be. If it isn't, so be.

    The last sentence sounds like you're taking "some" atheists' arguments personally. It's not that big of a deal.

    If atheist were correct and there is no god, how would you adjust to that reality?

    I don't know what heaven, hell, afterlife, and the abrahamic god is to even begin to answer that question.
     
  15. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    The cost of theism is in other things. For instance:

    - what injustices have you entrusted to God to make right? Without God, these injustices will stand.

    - what things have you done to others because you thought they were God's will, but that brought harm or misery to those people? Without God, you've caused that harm and misery needlessly.

    - what relationships have you cut off because of disagreements of faith? Without God, you gave up on those relationships - and the support they could have given you - needlessly.
     
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  16. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    BTW: which believers in particular?

    In a fair number of versions of "Heaven, Hell, Afterlife, God," I'd be going to Heaven and you'd be going to Hell.
     
  17. Jaiket

    Jaiket Well-Known Member
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    I'd probably say that it was unexpected and that I look forward to meeting Einstein, Gandhi, Socrates, Tutenkhamen etc in hell.
     
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  18. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Yet another summary of Pascal's Wager? Sorry, it doesn't work. If one version of God exists, all the believers in other Gods are bad off. So, the best thing is to be truthful and honest and state clearly what and why you believe.

    Also, you are you saying that just praying, without actually believing, would be acceptable? if not, then it is NOT just a bit of wasted time. You need to *actually believe*. And, in the absence of evidence, I simply don't have that belief.

    If I am wrong, I will admit I am wrong. If you have evidence, please present it. Otherwise, there is no more reason to think *your* version of God is correct than the versions worshiped by the Aztecs. And I if either of is wrong and the Aztecs were right, we are both in deep trouble.
     
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  19. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    It's just as others have mentioned, Pascals Wager.

    Its pretty certain the notion of God is just that, a notion. Nothing more.

    So there is no valid fear whatsoever of anyone being wrong, as I'm sure a vast majority of people are not going to go by such a challenge solely on the basis of what people happen to think in their heads.

    There needs to be something much more concrete present, aside from a stand alone ideology that is completely absent from reality.
     
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  20. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Thank you, and I wish you the same

    At least it can't be called proselytizing

    :D

    1) They will start praying to God ... a little bit delayed
    2) They will accept their fate (God's Gift to them)

    ETA: see Note2 in this post for explanation if not clear enough

    :D
    I went to see/visit Sai Baba, a Guru in India, who claims to be a Poorna Avatar (Highest possible incarnation on Earth)
    When people asked me "How do you know He is for Real, and not an imposter?"
    I always replied "I learned a lot and lost nothing ... but what would you do, if you find out the He is for Real and not an imposter and smeared Him?"
     
    #20 stvdv, Jan 5, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2021
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