A Question for Atheists..

[stvdv]

You create a footer that is not visible on a devices that are used to view RF then yes, that is your problem

And also. You cannot expect others to set their software to suite your preference. Unless you advise that settings must be changed to view your disclaimer

I have a totally different view on this,

You are free to have your opinion, but I disagree with all you said. It's like "small print" in a contract, if you don't read all, it's "your problem"

I make use of the normal RF options. IF other people change their settings/devices, so that they don't see all the info, that is their problem

 

[Polymath257]

Peace be upon you everybody!

I have seen a lot of atheists here on the forums, but honestly I expected to see believer not atheists; as this site is called "religious forums", but anyway I've had a really interesting question for those who don't believe in after life and think that Its all fake, and as my communist friend once said (Karl Marx) "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

- Let's all assume that this is correct.
that after life is all fake and atheists were correct after all.. nature created the universe, planets, sun, human beings, animals, birds, Everything..but then would it really matter for believers?
20 minutes is the average time that a believer "wastes" everyday to pray, and worship his/her God, a very humble number that never compares to the hours that we all admit to waste on social media and random stuff, if believers are wrong.. Are they sincerely going to be regretful for those "wasted" minutes everyday?
I don't think so.

- Now, Lets assume the opposite.. that after life was true and that there is a single God who created this whole universe, what are atheists going to say then? What are atheists going to say when Heaven and Hell are revealed? and that only those who believed in God will go to heaven and others will not.

To any atheist reading this, I know that pride and dignity are your divine principles, but they won't do anything for you if believers were correct, they won't have any value if you find out that afterlife was true, consider both situations to happen, personally as a believer myself I would never feel ashamed if my beliefs were incorrect, I would never feel ashamed because I would just die and that's it. No afterlife!

For you atheists If believers were to be correct about Heaven, Hell, Afterlife, God, What would you do/say then?

Maybe a God exists, but doesn't like playacting sycophants. Maybe this deity is testing us to be sure we are honest about the evidence provided and will reward those who do not believe without sufficient evidence. And maybe this deity will punish those who rush to judgement, even a correct one, before the evidence is available.

 

[Revoltingest]

- Now, Lets assume the opposite.. that after life was true and that there is a single God who created this whole universe, what are atheists going to say then? What are atheists going to say when Heaven and Hell are revealed? and that only those who believed in God will go to heaven and others will not.

To any atheist reading this, I know that pride and dignity are your divine principles, but they won't do anything for you if believers were correct, they won't have any value if you find out that afterlife was true, consider both situations to happen, personally as a believer myself I would never feel ashamed if my beliefs were incorrect, I would never feel ashamed because I would just die and that's it. No afterlife!

For you atheists If believers were to be correct about Heaven, Hell, Afterlife, God, What would you do/say then?

Which believers?
After all, there are many different beliefs about Heaven & Hell.

When would I find out that a particular religion is correct?
Before or after it's too late.

 

[Audie]

Which believers?
After all, there are many different beliefs about Heaven & Hell.

When would I find out that a particular religion is correct?
Before or after it's too late.

Pick one, pray fervently for as long
as it takes for you to get Word that is True.

Then stop asking, for lo, if you keep asking
the answer will change to No., its false.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Pick one, pray fervently for as long
as it takes for you to get Word that is True.

Then stop asking, for lo, if you keep asking
the answer will change to No., its false.

Or unknown for a subset of gods.

 

[ChristineM]

I have a totally different view on this,

You are free to have your opinion, but I disagree with all you said. It's like "small print" in a contract, if you don't read all, it's "your problem"

I make use of the normal RF options. IF other people change their settings/devices, so that they don't see all the info, that is their problem

My setting are correct in the default state there is no footer on my phone or tablet. If you don't understand how css works to allow the programmer to cater for different devices you cannot put that ignorance on others

You got to point out it's there in the small print. If you dont know who can view your cop out then what is the point?

You don't expect people to go out of their way just because you have a quirk do you?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

My setting are correct in the default state there is no footer on my phone or tablet. If you don't understand how css works to allow the programmer to cater for different devices you cannot put that ignorance on others

You got to point out it's there in the small print. If you dont know who can view your cop out then what is the point?

You don't expect people to go out of their way just because you have a quirk do you?

No, it is nobody's fault and not a problem. You have learned something, you didn't know before. What is next?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

- Let's all assume that this is correct.
that after life is all fake and atheists were correct after all.. nature created the universe, planets, sun, human beings, animals, birds, Everything.

Not what atheism is, but okay, let's assume. Just wanted to put that out there...

.but then would it really matter for believers?
20 minutes is the average time that a believer "wastes" everyday to pray, and worship his/her God, a very humble number that never compares to the hours that we all admit to waste on social media and random stuff, if believers are wrong.. Are they sincerely going to be regretful for those "wasted" minutes everyday?

I don't think so.

Let's not pretend as if that is the only impact a deeply held belief has on people.
While the average might only be 20 minutes per day spend directly on rituals or what have you (no idea where you pulled that number from though, but I doesn't matter to my point - I'm happy to accept it), the impact of the religious beliefs go WAY beyond that. To the point that it might literally affect all aspects of somebody's life.

Their choice in life partner. Their treatment of others. Their political views. The way they vote. The jobs they are or aren't willing to do. The fights they are or aren't willing to engage in.

A worldview that goes counter actual reality inevitably leads to bad decisions and actions. Decisions and actions that affect not only the life of the person itself, but also those around them and even beyond that.

In reality, the impact of religious beliefs on a society is HUGE.

Incidently, that's exactly why you find so many atheists on a "religious forum" such as this one: because those atheist lives are immensly impacted by the various religious beliefs / believers that surround them.

Even in the US, supposedly the biggest "secular democracy" in the world, it is political suicide if you out yourself as an atheist / non-religious. You can just forget about being elected - for that reason only.

So really, I very much disagree with you. Those theists might not regret having spend "20 min per day" on a fantasy - but they will likely regret how this fantasy dominated major aspects of their lives, including their social relations and political outlook. That will most likely be the things they regret.

- Now, Lets assume the opposite.. that after life was true and that there is a single God who created this whole universe, what are atheists going to say then?

The same thing you muslims will say if that God turns out to be not Allah, but some other vindictive deity who'll treat you muslims as the same kind of "unbelievers" as we atheists. Remember, there are thousands of "gods" out there. We both share a disbelief of 99.99% of them. There's really only 1 that we disagree on.

In short: Pascal's wager, is a very poor argument.

What are atheists going to say when Heaven and Hell are revealed? and that only those who believed in God will go to heaven and others will not.

I'ld think that that god is an immoral ********* and I will be able to say that I took an intellectually honest stance by not believing in undefendable, unsupportable, unfalsifiable things which were indistinguishable from sheer fantasy.

If that god wants to torture me forever for using my brain, there's really nothing I can do about that... then I can only conclude that he's an immoral ********* who punishes rational thinking and rewards gullibility.

To any atheist reading this, I know that pride and dignity are your divine principles

Pride has nothing to do with it. Neither is anything "divine".
I just don't believe things without rational justification. That is all.

, but they won't do anything for you if believers were correct, they won't have any value if you find out that afterlife was true, consider both situations to happen, personally as a believer myself I would never feel ashamed if my beliefs were incorrect, I would never feel ashamed because I would just die and that's it. No afterlife!

Unless off course, you choose the wrong religion (or were given the wrong religion by your parents), in which case you are in the exact same boat.

For you atheists If believers were to be correct about Heaven, Hell, Afterlife, God, What would you do/say then?

There was no rational reason to believe any of it.
So if this all powerful celestial dictator wants to punish me for being rational, and reward the irrational for being irrational, not much I can do about it.

I just don't see it happening. No just & loving entity - god or otherwise - would ever subject anyone to any form of punishment for the "crime" of rational thinking.

 

[stvdv]

My setting are correct in the default state there is no footer on my phone or tablet. If you don't understand how css works to allow the programmer to cater for different devices you cannot put that ignorance on others

You got to point out it's there in the small print. If you dont know who can view your cop out then what is the point?

You don't expect people to go out of their way just because you have a quirk do you?

I know quite a lot when it comes to programming, as I am a programmer (including basic, pascal, C) by profession, and studied it my whole life (since age 18 or so). So, no need to belittle my skills, especially because you know hardly anything about me; you only know me virtual on RF.

We differ in opinion here. You are of course free to have a different opinion on this issue; I have no problem with that. So, I agree to disagree on this.

Note1: IF moderators disagree with my use of my signature in 2021, then I will be happy to change the way I post

Note2: (see quote below) The moment all is revealed to Atheists it's proven that God exists THEN the Atheist = Theist = believes in God, hence my 2 answers ...
1) Those who believe in God pray to God.
And @Loaai said what if HELL is true and Atheists go there? So my reply is just repeating what was said
2) "Atheists will accept their fate = going to Hell". Not that I believe in this, but I just answered the hypothetical question.

- Now, Lets assume the opposite
that after life was true and that there is a single God who created this whole universe, what are atheists going to say then?
1) What are atheists going to say when Heaven and Hell are revealed?
2) and that only those who believed in God will go to heaven and others will not.

1) They will start praying to God ... a little bit delayed
2) They will accept their fate (God's Gift to them)

 

[ChristineM]

I know quite a lot when it comes to programming, as I am a programmer (including basic, pascal, C) by profession, and studied it my whole life (since age 18 or so). So, no need to belittle my skills, especially because you know hardly anything about me; you only know me virtual on RF.

We differ in opinion here. You are of course free to have a different opinion on this issue; I have no problem with that. So, I agree to disagree on this.

Note1: IF moderators disagree with my use of my signature in 2021, then I will be happy to change the way I post

Note2: (see quote below) The moment all is revealed to Atheists it's proven that God exists THEN the Atheist = Theist = believes in God, hence my 2 answers ...

But you obviously know squat about cascading style sheet

Of course we disagree, hence the argument.

Note 1
Ok, ill ask them if a hidden cop out is valid as a cop out.

Note 2
You cannot speak for atheists even if you do have a hidden cop out. You may revere your god. There is no way i, and the many atheists i know would bow down in worship to a genocidal child murderer who condones rape and slavery

 

[stvdv]

Note 2
You cannot speak for atheists even if you do have a hidden cop out. You may revere your god. There is no way i, and the many atheists i know would bow down in worship to a genocidal child murderer who condones rape and slavery

My view when I was writing post #20:

The OP is a hypothetical situation: What if it is proven that God exists?

IF God is proven to exist THEN Atheism/Atheist do not exist (only Theists remain). Atheists tell Theists all the time "Prove that God exist, then I believe in God"

So,

I was not speaking for Atheists in post #20 (I was speaking for myself/theist, God exists), no need for cop out here even
I was speaking for Atheists who now believe in God (as it was a hypothetical question; God is proven to God exist) = Theists

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The OP was a hypothetical situation: What if it is proven that God exists.

IF God is proven to exist THEN Atheism and Atheist do not exist (only Theists remain), that is what Atheists tell us Theists all the time "Prove that God exist, then I believe in God"

So,

I was not speaking for Atheists in post #20,
I was speaking for Atheists who now believe in God (as it was a hypothetical question; God is proven to God exist) = Theists

Yeah, but if God exists, it doesn't follow that God is a theistic God.

 

[stvdv]

Yeah, but if God exists, it doesn't follow that God is a theistic God.

We have: Atheism and Theism. IF God is proven to exist (hypothetical in OP) THEN Atheists don't exist anymore. Theists remain.

The OP did not define God yet, so I don't know what kind of God there is. I do know that Theists are still there

 

[Audie]

My view when I was writing post #20:

The OP is a hypothetical situation: What if it is proven that God exists?

IF God is proven to exist THEN Atheism/Atheist do not exist (only Theists remain). Atheists tell Theists all the time "Prove that God exist, then I believe in God"

So,

I was not speaking for Atheists in post #20 (I was speaking for myself/theist, God exists), no need for cop out here even
I was speaking for Atheists who now believe in God (as it was a hypothetical question; God is proven to God exist) = Theists

Proof? How about even a little inconclusive evebidence? Something?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

We have: Atheism and Theism. IF God is proven to exist (hypothetical in OP) THEN Atheists don't exist anymore. Theists remain.

The OP did not define God yet, so I don't know what kind of God there is. I do know that Theists are still there

No, you are living out deistic and/or philosophical variants of God.

 

[ChristineM]

My view when I was writing post #20:

The OP is a hypothetical situation: What if it is proven that God exists?

IF God is proven to exist THEN Atheism/Atheist do not exist (only Theists remain). Atheists tell Theists all the time "Prove that God exist, then I believe in God"

So,

I was not speaking for Atheists in post #20 (I was speaking for myself/theist, God exists), no need for cop out here even
I was speaking for Atheists who now believe in God (as it was a hypothetical question; God is proven to God exist) = Theists

It was worded as "atheist will" that is bull no matter how hard you hide your imo

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It was worded as "atheist will" that is bull no matter how hard you hide your imo

There is a further problem. God as magic is no different than us being in a computer simulation and we are being played. I.e. it is not proof of God.

 

[stvdv]

No, you are living out deistic and/or philosophical variants of God.

I prefer (my opinion) to keep it simpel, hence I divide it in 2 simple groups:
Atheism = Lack of "Belief in God"
Theism = "Belief in God"

We have thousands of sects already, and I won't be surprised that many more will come in the future. All are free to create their own belief system or even religion. I also create my own religion, my own God idea, as do others.

I leave all free to create their view as simple or complex as they like.
I just give my opinion/view. So, I leave nobody out. I love computers, binary: "1" or "0". So in this case "-God" and "+God"

But by all means feel free to disagree with me, and feel free to add any group to it, like deism, philosophy, etc....

 

[stvdv]

It was worded as "atheist will" that is bull no matter how hard you hide your imo

I know what I felt when I wrote post #20, and this was exactly what I felt.
IF it's proven that God exists THEN Atheists = Theists

You are free to disbelieve me or disagree
Hence I said "I agree to disagree"

Meaning: End of conversation

 

[ChristineM]

I know what I felt when I wrote post #20, and this was exactly what I felt.
IF it's proven that God exists THEN Atheists = Theists

You are free to disbelieve me or disagree
Hence I said "I agree to disagree"

Meaning: End of conversation

Goodbye