Man: "Doctor. Please help me. I have a bowel movement every morning at 7 AM"
Doctor: "So what's the problem?"
Man: "I don't get up until eight."
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Man: "Doctor. Please help me. I have a bowel movement every morning at 7 AM"
Doctor: "So what's the problem?"
Man: "I don't get up until eight."
InChrist
Free4ever
On the contrary, I don't think those people were any more savage than people are today as the same things continue. Modern day human sex trafficking and slavery is higher now than at any other point in history and people still continue to kill others for petty, trivial, arbitrary reasons...or for entertainment...or for no reason at all. It is very disgusting and savage. I believe the Bible is the perfect book since it does not cover-up human sin and evil, but exposes it for the reality it is.
That's why you're a bigot.
"Nothing will change that". You don't believe in rational thought or doing the best thing for the Human Family.
You just have a thought. And your religion teaches you to avoid thinking. "Let some bronze age goat herders do the thinking for you. They are just as bigoted as you are, and they claim that God spoke to them personally.
As opposed to all the other people who claim that God spoke to them. You have no problem dismissing God when He speaks to people who you don't agree with.
Tom
InChrist
Free4ever
According to the Bible living the homosexual lifestyle is a behavioral choice which is sinful like any other sexual sin...adultery, fornication, porn, etc. It's not about holding a prejudice opinion.toward anyone or group in particular.Neither is being gay
But that's the crux of the issue isn't it? It's not often that people hold a prejudiced opinion and don't think their target deserves it in some way.
Mister Silver
Faith's Nightmare
The bible was once, still is in some cases, used as an advocacy for slavery.
Erebus
Well-Known Member
Okay. If we work on the assumption, as I do, that the Bible isn't actually correct, that stance becomes a lot more shaky.
To put this in perspective, saying that gay sex is wrong would be like saying it's wrong to have sex with redheads. A very strange and arbitrary restriction on somebody's choice of sexual partner.
That's without even going into whether or not homosexuality is a choice. I really don't think it is. Put it this way, I'm not attracted to other men. Just can't do it. If that were a choice, I'd be bisexual since I'm pretty good at telling people who dislike my lifestyle to go forth and multiply anyway and there's a thriving gay scene in my nearest city. Bisexuality would suit me just fine.
The reason I'm not bisexual is because I can't simply choose to be.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Yes, such stuff still occurs, but the difference is that modern, civilized society acknowledges that it's unjust, unethical, etc. whereas the bible presumes to place god's stamp of approval upon such actions.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
According to the bible so is rotating crops, wearing mixed fabrics, eating pork or shrimp, speaking to menstruating women, working on the sabbath, having a tattoo, trimming the hair around your temple, etc.
Yet the bible approves of owning slaves (and beating them), selling your own daughters, and forcing rape victims to marry their attackers.
I.E. not the sort of garbage that should be used as a moral compass in modern, civilized society.
No one is saying that your attractions are a choice. The choice is whether or not to act on them. The argument that homosexuals shouldn't act in their desires is because of views of biological compatibility, the purpose of sex and the purpose and meaning of marriage.
Curious George
Veteran Member
I would think it only arbitrary if there was no reason behind it. For instance, you could say sex with redheads is wrong because.... and as long as your reasoning was not arbitrary the statement itself, standing alone, would not be arbitrary. For instance i can say sex with an unconsenting individual is wrong, and most people wouldn't call that arbitrary (though I acknowledge some would). The same can be said of redheads and individuals of the same sex. However, I assume what you mean to say is that you see no reasonable argument to articulate such a statement. Is that correct?
Mister Silver
Faith's Nightmare
It is rather ironic that if this was the position to which Christians were supposed to adhere, that they would be advocating for infertile heterosexuals to not engage in sex due to the act not being capable of resulting in children.
DavidFirth
Well-Known Member
Paul was an appointed Apostle by God. He was filled with the Holy Spirit. His words are the words of God except where he specifically said otherwise.
Homosexuality was declared a sin by God in the OT so why does it surprise you that marriage among them is forbidden?
Except that there's still the possibility of them conceiving (if they haven't used permanent contraception) and the act still meets the criteria for the marital act.
Wow. Where in the Bible does it describe homosexuality as a "lifestyle choice"?
Mister Silver
Faith's Nightmare
Not if at least one of them is biologically infertile.
Curious George
Veteran Member
And I suppose it is possible for someone to sit in the wet spot after as well, but what about a woman with no uterus?
The idea that sex is only for the purpose of creating children makes no sense. On what basis could one ever make such a conclusion?
It really comes down to the nature of the acts: Do infertile couples clinch the case for same-sex marriage? - CNA Columns: Guest Columnist
Even if God told me homosexuality was a sin directly I would still ask why, but to me Paul was like a man seeing the light through coloured glass, a very privileged albeit not infallible individual.
Erebus
Well-Known Member
Yes, that's what I was going for
I've certainly come across the position that sexuality is a choice. However, I'll grant that perhaps that isn't being claimed in this instance.
Again, I don't believe the Bible is actually God's truth. I also don't believe that having children is an inherently good thing. For that matter, I don't believe that marriage is an inherently good thing. With that in mind, this particular Christian* view on sex and homosexuality really doesn't make sense at all to me.
To be completely honest, I don't get why anybody would even care whether somebody's gay, straight or bisexual. I really don't get why something as vast as a deity would care.
*I know this doesn't apply to all Christians.
By the same token, however, if something is "a sin" only in your own belief, then it is no more important to everyone else than you are. Your beliefs do not, much as you may hope otherwise, constitute either reality or thoughts of any deity -- real or imagined.
It is a real truth about humans that our beliefs are absolutely remarkably resistant to reason -- or even demonstrated fact. For the most part, we don't even look at or listen to evidence that challenges our beliefs, but blandly accept everything, no matter how spurious, that supports them. I find that to be among the less ennobling things about humanity.