Why am I still a bigot?

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, that's what I was going for



I've certainly come across the position that sexuality is a choice. However, I'll grant that perhaps that isn't being claimed in this instance.

Again, I don't believe the Bible is actually God's truth. I also don't believe that having children is an inherently good thing. For that matter, I don't believe that marriage is an inherently good thing. With that in mind, this particular Christian* view on sex and homosexuality really doesn't make sense at all to me.

To be completely honest, I don't get why anybody would even care whether somebody's gay, straight or bisexual. I really don't get why something as vast as a deity would care.


*I know this doesn't apply to all Christians.

They care because they believe that God created us to live in a certain way which is optimal for our health and happiness, that we were created with a nature for us to abide by. This doesn't only apply to Christians, but to Jews, Muslims and many other religions, as well.

 

[Erebus]

They care because they believe that God created us to live in a certain way which is optimal for our health and happiness, that we were created with a nature for us to abide by. This doesn't only apply to Christians, but to Jews, Muslims and many other religions, as well.

I know this isn't exclusive to Christianity. For the moment though, let's just focus on that.

Serious question. Do you believe that this is a position that will serve to make gay people healthier and happier?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It's not about the world being better off. I don't think it would be better off if there were no LGBT people. I think the LGBT people themselves would be happier. From my interactions with them (and I had many at sixth form, because they made up most of my friends, believe it or not) they'd rather not be gay and consider it a curse rather than a blessing. Many really want to have children, but they never will. In my experience many of them are unhappy or depressed and wish they weren't so. In the open they appear some of the happiest people I've met; in secret, they confess to being very insecure and depressed. Regardless, even if there were no LGBT people we'd still have maaaaany problems. Gays aren't really my #1 priority.

When I was growing up (gay) many, many years ago, it was standard that everybody hated homosexuals. I wonder if you have considered whether a universal hatred towards you might -- even just a little bit -- cause you to feel a little bit insecure, depressed or unhappy? I'm asking -- you see -- whether they were unhappy with being gay, or unhappy with being vilified. It's something you should consider.

For my own part, and I do have the right to speak for me, I have never, ever wished to be anything or anyone but what and who I am. This, by the way, has also been true of most of the people (gay and straight) that I have known throughout my life.

 

[Rival]

When I was growing up (gay) many, many years ago, it was standard that everybody hated homosexuals. I wonder if you have considered whether a universal hatred towards you might -- even just a little bit -- cause you to feel a little bit insecure, depressed or unhappy? I'm asking -- you see -- whether they were unhappy with being gay, or unhappy with being vilified. It's something you should consider.

For my own part, and I do have the right to speak for me, I have never, ever wished to be anything or anyone but what and who I am. This, by the way, has also been true of most of the people (gay and straight) that I have known throughout my life.

As I said before, I've rarely if ever come across some seriously antigay sentiment in this country and the college they were at had posters saying SOME PEOPLE ARE GAY. GET OVER IT. All over the college. The room where the student council met had a rainbow flag. There were events held, charity work and all sorts. It could not have been more progay had it tried.

 

[Erebus]

As I said before, I've rarely if ever come across some seriously antigay sentiment in this country and the college they were at had posters saying SOME PEOPLE ARE GAY. GET OVER IT. All over the college. The room where the student council met had a rainbow flag. There were events held, charity work and all sorts. It could not have been more progay had it tried.

I can tell you for a fact that my best friend suffered. He faced bullying for his sexuality and was effectively disowned by a part of his family.

Things are nowhere near as bad in the UK as they are in some countries, that I'll grant you. I can promise you though that anti-gay sentiment is alive and well and causes people real harm.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I know this isn't exclusive to Christianity. For the moment though, let's just focus on that.

Serious question. Do you believe that this is a position that will serve to make gay people healthier and happier?

Thanks for asking. This is a really tough question for me as I am pansexual as well as a transsexual man. I'm trying my best to live up to Abrahamic morality, including sexual morality. I'm currently celibate and refraining from all sexual activity. I think celibacy has its spiritual strengths although it can be very difficult. It is a gift if you can accept it.

As for gay people, I'm honestly not sure if they all must be celibate. I wrestle with that a lot. I would advise them to be celibate if they can accept that. At least try. If they can't and their heart burns with love for someone, I would say they should marry and be monogamous lifelong spouses. Only God can judge, ultimately, and it's better than slutting around because you can't control yourself. With all things, God comes first so I would always advise them to pray and consult religious leaders when it comes to such a serious subject. I think ultimately it is following God and doing His will that brings us happiness and health.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

As I said before, I've rarely if ever come across some seriously antigay sentiment in this country and the college they were at had posters saying SOME PEOPLE ARE GAY. GET OVER IT. All over the college. The room where the student council met had a rainbow flag. There were events held, charity work and all sorts. It could not have been more progay had it tried.

That was not my point -- my point was that you yourself attributed their insecurity and unhappiness to the fact of their being gay, rather than the much more likely fact that a lot of the non-gay world (and especially the religious, non-gay world) is strongly disapproving, no matter how much they may try to hide it. I only asked you to consider that.

My own preference is that we all accept and care about each other as we are, just so long as we are not doing harm to one another. It is my personal view that that would make the entire planet richer than anything any mere "god" could accomplish.

 

[Deidre]

"Where in the Bible does your god prioritize homosexuality as a sin over adultery? There's a Commandment about one but not the other, and adultery is a far greater threat to the institution of marriage than gay people entering into committed relationships. The truth is that Christians who get into gay bashing but are virtually silent on adultery are just hypocritical bigots, not representing any biblical ethic." - anon

Yep. Good quote. It's always easier to tell someone to stop doing something wrong, if it's not what we're doing wrong. lol

 

[PlicsidaLoreal]

.

Paul makes it very clear.

The ungodly and unrighteous men.

Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death. .......................................................................

I can not agree with Paul - If He is saying to Kill or Hurt Gays. But I know Paul is saying that all people who sin are Worthy of Death. But it is not our place to punish them.

 

[Sunstone]

I think homosexuality is a sin. Nothing will change that. You may say Paul was just saying lustful gays are sinning, but it can also mean it's the same as lust.

However, I don't think it's a reason to discriminate. On an individual basis like housing, jobs, and services. Events are a different matter.

I simply don't hate and call for cooperation. Why am I still a bigot? Are you just trying to feel superior?

I would say you're trying to reconcile your religious belief that homosexuality is a sin with your beliefs in treating people decently. I'm inclined to think "bigot" is not the right word for you.

 

[DavidFirth]

Even if God told me homosexuality was a sin directly I would still ask why, but to me Paul was like a man seeing the light through coloured glass, a very privileged albeit not infallible individual.

According to God homosexuality is a sin as well as fornication. You can't justify it by refusing to believe Paul.

 

[Mister Silver]

You can't justify it by refusing to believe Paul.

Of course we can. After all, only the christian needs to believe that what Paul supposedly recorded has any veritable merit toward the truth.

 

[Erebus]

Thanks for asking. This is a really tough question for me as I am pansexual as well as a transsexual man. I'm trying my best to live up to Abrahamic morality, including sexual morality. I'm currently celibate and refraining from all sexual activity. I think celibacy has its spiritual strengths although it can be very difficult. It is a gift if you can accept it.

As for gay people, I'm honestly not sure if they all must be celibate. I wrestle with that a lot. I would advise them to be celibate if they can accept that. At least try. If they can't and their heart burns with love for someone, I would say they should marry and be monogamous lifelong spouses. Only God can judge, ultimately, and it's better than slutting around because you can't control yourself. With all things, God comes first so I would always advise them to pray and consult religious leaders when it comes to such a serious subject. I think ultimately it is following God and doing His will that brings us happiness and health.

Thank you for an honest and sincere answer. I genuinely do appreciate that

If I can offer an unsolicited suggestion, I think it's probably worthwhile to reflect on this while taking God out of the picture for a bit. See what you think is best. For what it's worth, I get that this is something much easier said than done and also something that's going to be easier for me to say as a non-Christian.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Thank you for an honest and sincere answer. I genuinely do appreciate that

If I can offer an unsolicited suggestion, I think it's probably worthwhile to reflect on this while taking God out of the picture for a bit. See what you think is best. For what it's worth, I get that this is something much easier said than done and also something that's going to be easier for me to say as a non-Christian.

Thanks, but if I went by what I thought was best for me, I'd be living like a drunken nihilistic libertine and hating myself while in a suicidal depression. Been there, trying to escape from it.

 

[Erebus]

Thanks, but if I went by what I thought was best for me, I'd be living like a drunken nihilistic libertine and hating myself while in a suicidal depression. Been there, trying to escape from it.

Okay

I'm not going to go all pop psychology on you. We deal with these things as we can.

 

[DavidFirth]

Of course we can. After all, only the christian needs to believe that what Paul supposedly recorded has any veritable merit toward the truth.

As far as I'm concerned only Christians know truth.

 

[Sunstone]

As far as I'm concerned only Christians know truth.

Doesn't seem so, though, does it.

 

[Sunstone]

Spoiler: Language

 

[DavidFirth]

Doesn't seem so, though, does it.

"Seems like the truth" and "truth" are often inequalities.


Your chart is rather silly.

 

[Sunstone]

"Seems like the truth" and "truth" are often inequalities.

Christianity sure seems like the truth to a lot of people. I'll grant you that.