Why am I still a bigot?

[Rival]

having a bowel movement or night emission would make a person unclean

true everything was edible to adam and eve too. then moses changed that too. being creative isn't necessarily sexual

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Being unclean isn't a sin.

 

[Deidre]

This is just my view:

I am just as devoutly against adultery (fornication is not a sin for Noahides and neither really, afaik, for Jews). Homosexuality is an issue because the LGBT community made it an issue on purpose to change society's views. There is no such thing as the Adultery and Fornication Community marching for the right to cheat. Secondly, a lot of people still hold the view that adultery is morally wrong, religious or not.

Definitely I have sinned, do sin and will sin in future. The point is not never to sin, but to build character and to be on a journey with G-d. Even the most righteous men sinned. We make our teshuva (repentance) in secret, because sin is between the sinner and G-d.

Well simple, most people aren't having adulterous weddings lol. Since bigamy is a crime, the baker would probably be forced to tell the authorities in such an instance. Most people keep their porn viewing habits to themselves and certainly I wouldn't tell the local bakery about my porn habits.

The only reason the LGBT community is so vocal, is because they were persecuted by religious people for so many years. Homosexuality is only a religious issue, to a religious person. This is why we have separation of church and state in the US, so religion doesn't dictate the laws of the land. And so a religious person has the right to practice his/her faith in peace without persecution. But practicing one's faith doesn't carry over into telling gay people they can't get legally married, in a secular setting. That's why the LGBT community marches, and is so vocal. If they had 'rights' all along like heterosexuals, if the US didn't build its laws in the first place on Biblical ideas, we wouldn't see all these marches and protests. People usually protest as a reaction to being violated in some way. Just my thoughts, anyways.

Religious people have a right to protest against these things, sure. But, they don't have a right to legally and politically discriminate against one group of people simply because their holy book tells them to.

 

[Fool]

Being unclean isn't a sin.

true, its a wrong action. a tree is known by it's fruit, either the fruit is creative or destructive. being fruitful is about an action. it's a verb parah. love is a right action. hate is a wrong action.

it isn't what enters into a man that makes him a sinner. it is the fruit that comes from him.

love doesn't take a specific form, sex, age, gender, religion, political-socioeconomic rank, ethnicity, sexuality, et al. it does take a specific action.

be fruitful and increase

 

[Rival]

The only reason the LGBT community is so vocal, is because they were persecuted by religious people for so many years. Homosexuality is only a religious issue, to a religious person. This is why we have separation of church and state in the US, so religion doesn't dictate the laws of the land. And so a religious person has the right to practice his/her faith in peace without persecution. But practicing one's faith doesn't carry over into telling gay people they can't get legally married, in a secular setting. That's why the LGBT community marches, and is so vocal. If they had 'rights' all along like heterosexuals, if the US didn't build its laws in the first place on Biblical ideas, we wouldn't see all these marches and protests. People usually protest as a reaction to being violated in some way. Just my thoughts, anyways.

I really think it's just a case of the two are never going to see eye to eye and reactions will always produce counter-reactions.

 

[Deidre]

I really think it's just a case of the two are never going to see eye to eye and reactions will always produce counter-reactions.

You win the internet. You are likely right. lol

 

[sun rise]

There are many 'sins' though that the Bible discusses at great length, many of them sexual, and many of them are not exclusive to homosexuals. Why doesn't the religious hetereosexual community get equally upset when adultery is happening, or when heterosexuals are ''fornicating'' outside of marriage? Those seem to be issues that are hushed up, and the main issue for many Christians becomes that of homosexuality.

I tend to view someone as a religious bigot if they feel that their sins are somehow ''not as offensive'' to God, as say ...homosexuality. If one wishes to preach from the Bible, then preach the whole of it, don't avoid those parts that make you uncomfortable in your own ''sin.'' (and not just talking sexually...how about gluttony, lust in one's heart just by looking lustfully at another woman, etc. etc.) I don't see any stories about Christian bakers in the US turning down adulterers who want cakes baked for their weddings, when the two affair partners are getting married. I don't see Christian bakery owners refusing to bake a cake for someone who has a porn addiction. I could go on, but you get my point?

Why are so many Christian obsessed with homosexuality, to the point where they feel that that's the end all be all 'sin' that God hates? ''Take the plank out of your own eye...before taking it out of your brother's eye.'' If one is unwilling to admit that he/she has planks in their eye, that could mean he/she is a bigot.

I see it that way as well.

I would also restate what you wrote that if a religion says 5 things are a sin and you have the same attitude toward all of them, you are not a bigot.

 

[Father Heathen]

People do have the right to believe what they wish and to speak their viewpoints, even if they are bigoted and irrational. What's unacceptable is when they act upon those beliefs in a way that threatens the rights, equality, and freedom of others.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

It's not about the world being better off. I don't think it would be better off if there were no LGBT people. I think the LGBT people themselves would be happier. From my interactions with them (and I had many at sixth form, because they made up most of my friends, believe it or not) they'd rather not be gay and consider it a curse rather than a blessing. Many really want to have children, but they never will. In my experience many of them are unhappy or depressed and wish they weren't so. In the open they appear some of the happiest people I've met; in secret, they confess to being very insecure and depressed.

Perhaps if the religious would quit calling them abominations, they might feel a little better about the way that they were born.

 

[Rival]

Perhaps if the religious would quit calling them abominations, they might feel a little better about the way that they were born.

Our aim isn't to make people feel good about themselves. Plus that doesn't usually happen in this country. Not once have I heard a religious person call a gay person that here. There'll be the odd vicar or two, but among lay Christians I've never heard it.

 

[Mister Silver]

Our aim isn't to make people feel good about themselves. Plus that doesn't usually happen in this country. Not once have I heard a religious person call a gay person that here. There'll be the odd vicar or two, but among lay Christians I've never heard it.

The British do tend to be more civilized.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

I think homosexuality is a sin. Nothing will change that. You may say Paul was just saying lustful gays are sinning, but it can also mean it's the same as lust.

However, I don't think it's a reason to discriminate. On an individual basis like housing, jobs, and services. Events are a different matter.

I simply don't hate and call for cooperation. Why am I still a bigot? Are you just trying to feel superior?

I don't have any problems with your beliefs, primarily because they most likely stem from fear. I recall a passage in the bible which states that God will punish those who condone the practices of homosexuals. Since the Judeo-Christian god is very real to you, I can see how, out of fear, you would continue to see homosexuality as a sin. I can see this, and would not necessarily consider you to be a bigot, after all, there are many religious folks who have a much more hateful view of the LGBTQ community than you do. Someone whom I would categorize as a bigot would be an atheist who is in favor of discrimination against homosexuals (although few exist). Such a person would be a bigot more so than yourself because he would have no fear-based reason to discriminate against homosexuals.

 

[InChrist]

It's simply an arbitrary, irrational, and unsubstantiated stance. Sure, the bible says that it's a "sin", but the bible also supports slavery, selling your daughters, and condemns to death those who eat shrimp or pork, rotate their crops, have tattoos, trim the hair around their temples, speak to menstruating women, or work on the sabbath. All stuff that today we acknowledge as nonsensical garbage, but yet we're still hung up on homosexuality? I hate to break it to you, but those ancient savages might've been wrong about a few things, and just because they claimed to speak on god's behalf doesn't mean that they actually did.

Obviously you have no comprehension when it comes to reading or understanding the Bible or rightly dividing the scriptures. Often the OT is simply a narrative on human behavior and cultural practices, neither supporting, nor defending many of those practices you have listed. The law which was given to the nation of Israel was not "nonsensical garbage' , but rather was for a specific people, time, and purpose. I just can't get over how arrogant it is to call ancient people "savages" when you don't have a clue or any understanding of historical context.

 

[InChrist]

Perhaps a comparison would help you understand.

If I were to say that black people have less moral integrity than white people, would you find that racist?

.

I don't think this qualifies as a valid comparison. Being black, white or whatever is not a matter of morality or right or wrong behavior.

 

[Father Heathen]

The British do tend to be more civilized.

America's history has seen surges of it's own unique brand of christian fundamentalism, starting with the puritans, then the Salem witch trials, The First and Second Great Awakenings, Manifest Destiny, etc.

Does anyone remember this lady?:

 

[Rival]

I don't have any problems with your beliefs, primarily because they most likely stem from fear. I recall a passage in the bible which states that God will punish those who condone the practices of homosexuals. Since the Judeo-Christian god is very real to you, I can see how, out of fear, you would continue to see homosexuality as a sin. I can see this, and would not necessarily consider you to be a bigot, after all, there are many religious folks who have a much more hateful view of the LGBTQ community than you do. Someone whom I would categorize as a bigot would be an atheist who is in favor of discrimination against homosexuals (although few exist). Such a person would be a bigot more so than yourself because he would have no fear-based reason to discriminate against homosexuals.

Fear of what, exactly?

 

[columbus]

I really think it's just a case of the two are never going to see eye to eye and reactions will always produce counter-reactions.

This is totally wrong.
The biggest problem gay people have is homophobic people. They're sometimes subtle about it, like you are. Sometimes not, like Westboro Baptist Church.

But no, you can't just say "I think homosex is wrong" without saying why, and not be a bigot. And if your explanation for why you are a bigot is because you think God is a bigot, then your God is a bigot as well.

Feel free to explain that you have the legal freedom to be a bigot, because you do. They're a dime a dozen. Y'all do. But you are a bigot. And it won't matter when people like you are dead. But y'all are going to do a lot of damage to Human Family in the meantime.

People like you did a lot of damage to me. And a bunch of people I have worked with and known through the years. "Oh, I don't hate you. I just don't want you to be happy. You should suffer for the sake of my image of Sky Daddy!"

"You know, the one I decided to believe in a couple of months ago, because He agrees with me about other peoples sex lives. Not the Episcopalian or Zoroastrian one.
Tom

 

[Father Heathen]

Obviously you have no comprehension when it comes to reading or understanding the Bible or rightly dividing the scriptures. Often the OT is simply a narrative on human behavior and cultural practices, neither supporting, nor defending many of those practices you have listed. The law which was given to the nation of Israel was not "nonsensical garbage' , but rather was for a specific people, time, and purpose. I just can't get over how arrogant it is to call ancient people "savages" when you don't have a clue or any understanding of historical context.

The bible is supposed to represent god's word and will, so why would a "perfect book" include stuff that doesn't, only serving to confuse people? And yes they were in fact savages, considering how eager they were to kill people for petty, trivial, and arbitrary reasons, and their readiness to sell their own daughters into what would amount to sexual slavery. Oh, and rape victims were forced to marry their attackers. So, yes they were indeed disgusting, lowly savages.

 

[Erebus]

I don't think this qualifies as a valid comparison. Being black, white or whatever is not a matter of morality or right or wrong behavior.

Neither is being gay

But that's the crux of the issue isn't it? It's not often that people hold a prejudiced opinion and don't think their target deserves it in some way.

 

[leibowde84]

I think homosexuality is a sin. Nothing will change that. You may say Paul was just saying lustful gays are sinning, but it can also mean it's the same as lust.

However, I don't think it's a reason to discriminate. On an individual basis like housing, jobs, and services. Events are a different matter.

I simply don't hate and call for cooperation. Why am I still a bigot? Are you just trying to feel superior?

You are only a bigot if you are intolerant of homosexuals and homosexuality. For example, if you don't want them around you, your children, your family, etc. and you act on that, actively keeping your family away from homosexuals, you would be a bigot. But, if you merely hold an opinion that homosexuality is wrong, you are not a bigot. Misguided, perhaps (in some people's opinion), but not a bigot.

I think you should just do an easy mental experiment to make sure you aren't acting like a bigot. If you take a questionable action (not a thought or opinion) and replace the word homosexual with african american, is the action prejudiced?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Why are so many Christian obsessed with homosexuality, to the point where they feel that that's the end all be all 'sin' that God hates?

"Where in the Bible does your god prioritize homosexuality as a sin over adultery? There's a Commandment about one but not the other, and adultery is a far greater threat to the institution of marriage than gay people entering into committed relationships. The truth is that Christians who get into gay bashing but are virtually silent on adultery are just hypocritical bigots, not representing any biblical ethic." - anon