Islam and Judaism are refuted.

[JJ50]

Excellent post. Why didn't Calm know these scriptures?

As for
Genesis 3:15


And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Christian Standard Bible I will put hostility between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will strike your head, and you will strike his heel. Contemporary English Version

So obviously talking about the snake and humankind.. Nothing to do with Jesus.

That goes to show what an evil entity the Biblical god is, if that verse has any credence.

 

[sooda]

That goes to show what an evil entity the Biblical god is, if that verse has any credence.

The verse is not about Satan and Jesus its about humans and snakes.

 

[Rival]

Isaiah isn't so much an Old Testament prophet but a New Testament prophet.
He wasn't much concerned with the rites and rituals of the Law but with love,
truth and the coming Messiah.
The Messiah and his promises is a common theme in his writings.
And Isaiah gave us, in one and a half chapters, a complete Gospel some
500 or 600 years before Jesus.

This is rubbish. I think you ought to actually read the whole book. Most of it is not even messianic.

 

[PruePhillip]

This is rubbish. I think you ought to actually read the whole book. Most of it is not even messianic.

Correct, most is not Messianic, but a lot if it IS.

Messianic Prophecies in the book of Isaiah:

1. He will be born of a virgin (7:14).

2. He will bring joy to Isra'el (9:2).

3. He will govern the world (9:6).

4. He will reign on David’s throne (9:7).

5. He will be a descendant of Jesse and thus in the Davidic line (49:1).

6. He will be empowered by the Holy Spirit (11:2; 42:1).

7. He will restore the nations (11:10).

8. He will judge in righteousness, justice, and faithfulness (113-5; 42:1,4).

9. He will be gentle toward the weak (42:3).

10. He will make a New Covenant with Isra'el (42:6; 49:8-9).

11. He will be a light to the Gentiles (42:6; 49:6).

12. He will be called before His birth to be God’s Servant (49:1).

13. He will manifest God’s glory (49:3).

14. He will restore Isra'el spiritually to God (49:5) and physically to the land (49:8).

15. He will be worshiped by Gentiles (49:7, 52:15).

16. He will be rejected by Isra'el (49:7; 53:1, 3).

17. He will be obedient to the LORD in His mission (50:6; 53:7-8).

18. He will voluntarily submit to suffering (50:6; 53:7-8).

19. He will be exalted (52:13; 53:12).

20. He will take on Himself the sins of the world (53:4-6, 10-12).

21. He will triumph over death (53:10).

22. He will come to comfort Isra'el and bring vengeance on the wicked (61:1-3).

Messianic Prophecies in the book of Isaiah - Isaiah Commentary

 

[sooda]

This is rubbish. I think you ought to actually read the whole book. Most of it is not even messianic.

@PruePhilip

All of Isaiah 7 is about King Ahaz.


Isaiah Chapter 7 Explained - bible-studys.org
www.bible-studys.org/Bible Books/Isaiah/Isaiah Chapter 7.html

• • Isaiah Chapter 7. The Immanuel Prophecy (7:1-12:6), introduces the hope of the future in spite of …
  • Isaiah 7:1 "And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of …
  • Isaiah 7:2 "And it was told the house of David, saying, Syria is confederate with Ephraim. And his …
  • Isaiah 7:3 "Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shear-jashub …

 

[sooda]

The seventh chapter of Isaiah cannot be a prophecy about Jesus’ virgin birth because it suggests that the prophecy was to have been fulfilled in Ahaz’s lifetime, some 700 years before Jesus.

@PruePhillip
@Rival
@oldbadger

 

[Rival]

The seventh chapter of Isaiah cannot be a prophecy about Jesus’ virgin birth because it suggests that the prophecy was to have been fulfilled in Ahaz’s lifetime, some 700 years before Jesus.

@PruePhillip
@Rival
@oldbadger

The text makes no mention of a virgin, but a young woman only, and is not messianic but referring to a King as aforementioned. Unfortunately Christians cannot drop it because of Matthew and Luke.

 

[shunyadragon]

What's the truth?

Truth is absolute ultimate knowledge beyond human understanding. The reference best refers to the increase in knowledge of the translations over time of the Dead Sea Scrolls content, and beyond this there is a lot of hypothetical speculation.

 

[sooda]

The text makes no mention of a virgin, but a young woman only, and is not messianic but referring to a King as aforementioned. Unfortunately Christians cannot drop it because of Matthew and Luke.

I know.... and some get really kinky and claim "dual prophecy".

https://outreachjudaism.org/dual-prophecy-virgin-birth/

 

[sooda]

Truth is absolute ultimate knowledge beyond human understanding. The reference best refers to the increase in knowledge of the translations over time of the Dead Sea Scrolls content, and beyond this there is a lot of hypothetical speculation.

There's also Nag Hammadi, the Ugarit Tablets and the Dilmun Tablets..

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In 1947 the Isaiah scroll was found in the Dead Sea, one found out that it was written in the 2nd century B.C. and therefore it is the oldest preserved manuscript of a whole book of the Bible. It was also found that the found Isaiah scroll is completely identical with the book of Isaiah in the Bible. This proves firstly that at least the book of Isaiah was not falsified, secondly that Jesus is the true God and the Father of eternity(Isaiah 9:6) and thirdly that Jesus was executed to die for the sins of mankind(Isaiah 53).

1947 was the year in which the Islam and the Judaism were refuted.

Here can you read the Isaiah scroll

How does finding an ancient text that is found to be a copy of the same ancient text, evidence of that ancient text's context being accurate and true?

Wheter it's a text that was reprinted yesterday or 1800 years ago, seems rather irrelevant to its contents being accurate or not.............

At least if it were different, it would bring new data / information to the table. But if it's the same, then it doesn't tell you anything that wasn't already known (for 1800 years, of all things).

So how could finding a copy of a text mean anything at all concerning the truth value of its contents?

This makes absolute zero sene.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What you mean are little things. Besides, Isaiah 53 and Isaiah 9:6 are completely identical with the Isaiah scroll.

So what?

 

[sooda]

How does finding an ancient text that is found to be a copy of the same ancient text, evidence of that ancient text's context being accurate and true?

Wheter it's a text that was reprinted yesterday or 1800 years ago, seems rather irrelevant to its contents being accurate or not.............

At least if it were different, it would bring new data / information to the table. But if it's the same, then it doesn't tell you anything that wasn't already known (for 1800 years, of all things).

So how could finding a copy of a text mean anything at all concerning the truth value of its contents?

This makes absolute zero sene.

I found this to be helpful.

Isaiah - Early Jewish Writings
www.earlyjewishwritings.com/isaiah.html
Information on Isaiah. The recognition that these parts are late insertions reveals Isaiah as even more of a prophet of doom than Amos and Hosea. In all three, but especially in Isaiah, the early Hebrew religion expresses a basic hopelessness. Israel's doom, synonymous with mankind's doom, was regarded as …

Isaiah is talking about King Ahaz... Not Jesus. This was supposed to happen in Ahaz lifetime, Jesus was 700 years later.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I found this to be helpful.

Isaiah - Early Jewish Writings
www.earlyjewishwritings.com/isaiah.html
Information on Isaiah. The recognition that these parts are late insertions reveals Isaiah as even more of a prophet of doom than Amos and Hosea. In all three, but especially in Isaiah, the early Hebrew religion expresses a basic hopelessness. Israel's doom, synonymous with mankind's doom, was regarded as …

Isaiah is talking about King Ahaz... Not Jesus. This was supposed to happen in Ahaz lifetime, Jesus was 700 years later.

Sure, but regardless....

If it's just a copy of the same text, then it doesn't bring any new information with it.
So how then could finding LITERALLY "more of the same", ever make any kind of difference in terms of credibility?

Then it doesn't tell us anything that the other, contemporary, texts didn't already tell us.
Meaning that there's nothing new under the sun.

So if what was already known wasn't enough to "disprove judaism", then finding more of the same doesn't seem very helpfull in changing that...........

 

[sooda]

Sure, but regardless....

If it's just a copy of the same text, then it doesn't bring any new information with it.
So how then could finding LITERALLY "more of the same", ever make any kind of difference in terms of credibility?

Then it doesn't tell us anything that the other, contemporary, texts didn't already tell us.
Meaning that there's nothing new under the sun.

So if what was already known wasn't enough to "disprove judaism", then finding more of the same doesn't seem very helpfull in changing that...........

It doesn't disprove Judaism. Christians are making dishonest claims. Their claims are shot thru with errors. Among scholars they have to be deliberate.. otherwise its just lazy ignorance.

 

[shunyadragon]

Absolutely not! Isaiah 9 prophesies the appearance of a wise ruler who would occupy the "throne of David" for ever...clearly that has not happened - at least not yet anyways. From that POV, the most sensible interpretation of that verse would be the Jewish one - wouldn't it?

From the Jewish perspective yes, and that is only if you consider each religion isolated form all others.

 

[stvdv]

In 1947 the Isaiah scroll was found in the Dead Sea, one found out that it was written in the 2nd century B.C. and therefore it is the oldest preserved manuscript of a whole book of the Bible. It was also found that the found Isaiah scroll is completely identical with the book of Isaiah in the Bible. This proves firstly that at least the book of Isaiah was not falsified, secondly that Jesus is the true God and the Father of eternity(Isaiah 9:6) and thirdly that Jesus was executed to die for the sins of mankind(Isaiah 53).

I am amazed that people still accept Bible verses as proof for what has been written in the Bible

 

[PruePhillip]

I am amazed that people still accept Bible verses as proof for what has been written in the Bible

Correct me if I am wrong but some held that the bible was of
early medieval origin. The scrolls demonstrated the Old
Testament did go back before Jesus,and that the text was
fairly faithful to the modern bible.

 

[BilliardsBall]

In 1947 the Isaiah scroll was found in the Dead Sea, one found out that it was written in the 2nd century B.C. and therefore it is the oldest preserved manuscript of a whole book of the Bible. It was also found that the found Isaiah scroll is completely identical with the book of Isaiah in the Bible. This proves firstly that at least the book of Isaiah was not falsified, secondly that Jesus is the true God and the Father of eternity(Isaiah 9:6) and thirdly that Jesus was executed to die for the sins of mankind(Isaiah 53).

1947 was the year in which the Islam and the Judaism were refuted.

Here can you read the Isaiah scroll

Yes, the scrolls, including 8 extant copies of Isaiah, show the Jesus prophecies were written hundreds of years before the time of Christ. The Bible is God's Word IMHO, however, Judaism is following the correct God--there are some issues there, of course.

 

[PruePhillip]

Yes, the scrolls, including 8 extant copies of Isaiah, show the Jesus prophecies were written hundreds of years before the time of Christ. The Bible is God's Word IMHO, however, Judaism is following the correct God--there are some issues there, of course.

If "Judaism is following the correct God" then one has to wonder why for 2,000 years
the Jews were outcast from Israel and subjected to unprecedented persecution?