If you say so. Personally, I have no reason to even assume that gods are possible, let alone probable enough to worry about them as a real concern.
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Questions no one can answer
Audie
Veteran Member
I'm just looking out for you. Imagine seeing that face looking in your window.
I'd know it was batboy for sure, up here 17 stories
up!!
Nice batboy, nice nice. No disrespect.
I know God exists and see His signs within myself and all around me.
It’s too obvious to me however the light of the sun can be so bright that it can blind some to its very existence.
PureX
Veteran Member
I agree. But sadly, there are many religious proselytizers around that claim faith means presuming to know, when if fact, faith is what we do when we cannot presume to know.
Can you give an example?
What a weird rationalization. The evidence is so good, some people can't see it? Really?
You'll have to excuse me if I dismiss this as a cop-out.
We only God exists and some things about His Attributes from the Messengers and Prophets He sends to this earth.
It is from Them we gain our knowledge of God, His Will and Purpose for us. In Their Holy Books many answers can be found if you read and ponder upon them.
This is an example of some of God’s powers revealed by Baha’u’llah.......
It is in Our power, should We wish it, to enable a speck of floating dust to generate, in less than the twinkling of an eye, suns of infinite, of unimaginable splendour, to cause a dewdrop to develop into vast and numberless oceans, to infuse into every letter such a force as to empower it to unfold all the knowledge of past and future ages....
(Cited in Shoghi Effendi, “The Advent of Divine Justice”, pp. 80–81)
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Err... no it isn't, it isn't even evidence.
This is called an argument from incredulity and it's a logical fallacy.
How do you know? More to the point, your first two questions in the OP totally undermine this line of "reasoning". You start off with saying how incredible the universe is and you can't see how it could arise by chance, and you end up inventing something even more complex and incredible to "explain" it, that's even harder to see how it can arise by chance.
It's almost comical.
You're partly right. For those who don't try to imagine the possible, who are afraid to stare into the Unknown, then God is a closed box. For them it answers the question without having to use their minds. This is who you are pointing to above. And you are right.
But it also serves to inspire imagination for those who are unafraid to think. God is the ultimate open-ended question, when you think about it. It inspires their minds to think beyond the closed boxes we try to place truth and reality inside of. God symbolizes ultimate freedom from such constraints, to see truth more deeply and live life more fully.
God can be seen in two basically different mindsets, in other words. One is God as the Answer, which closes the door on truth for them. The other is the Great Mystery which begs the question and opens to door to truth for them. One is fear-based, the other love-based. One is constricted, the other expansive.
I agree.
It seems to me that god is the answer to the question "Why is there something, rather than nothing?"
The reason I am a non-theist is because I don't believe that humans know anything important about God. Such little as we do know comes from science, assertions from prophets and such are just human fiction. Especially when they describe God as a sort of sky king with superpowers, Omnimax but very limited. Like Abrahamic religionists do.
Then they tell me that the human situation is my fault. Tsunamis and viruses and such are my fault because God made me the way I am. Droughts and tornadoes are us human's fault, because God planted a tree and then wandered off, leaving Adam and Eve alone with the serpent.
And the Tree.
Abrahamic religion is rife with irrational claims and demonstrably false assertions. I live in a world overwhelmingly dominated by Abrahamic religion. That's the god image that's been pushed on me since I was born. But I am not able to choose to believe it, because I also learned critical thinking skills. I cannot believe something that's internally inconsistent, especially when there's an internally consistent explanation. Humans made up a category of fictional character and call it God(s).
So, that's why I am confident that religion is fiction.
Tom
1/ is there a god?
Here is a paper on how a universe may arise from nothing, no god involved
Spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing
2/ have you read the bible? Gid killed all life on this planet except a close buddy, the buddies immediate family and about 18 million animals.
And you think childhood leukemia is just?
3/ see 1
1. Unknown of both counts. It's more likely a Jehovah like character is a sub-God or child of another God. The universe is a pretty big place. I'm not sure where you're going with the "no God" argument.
2. If you're the king you make the rules, you are neither just nor unjust. Others opinions of your actions are irrelevant. You are the strata through which every other being can exist.
3. If you accept the theory that a god isn't created, then it can't be destroyed. Other creations by that god would be emanations or limitations of itself. (saying him is pretty ridiculous)
The #3 condition is pretty tricky.... and quite unanswerable in an absolute sense...
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Another simple answer: green.
It’s quite simple really. A person who is without outward sight cannot see the sun no matter people claiming it exists. Likewise those bereft of inner sight can never see God even though to those with clear vision it’s as clear as the noonday sun.
As the saying goes..
“Even as the sun, bright hath He shined,
But alas, He hath come to the town of the blind!
Bahá’u’lláh
Apart from the physical senses there are other senses. The sense of understanding, the inner ear, the sense of perception - inner sight and if these be not developed one will not perceive or understand truth no matter how obvious.
Those who haven’t developed these capacities which are within every human being will object and argue but they speak from pure ignorance and until their inner eyes and ears are opened they will stubbornly reject.
That is why Jesus often says ‘he that has ears let him hear and he that has eyes let him see’. He is addressing other unused faculties within us which will grant us the vision to see and know God.
All the religions appeal to us to develop these senses so that truths heretofore unknown will be revealed to us but we persist in our know it all attitude instead of humbly looking into these things.
There’s nothing in existence that doesn’t shout ‘Here am I’ Here am I’
Unfortunately I can’t wave a magic wand so that all can see the Face and hear the Voice of God. Each person must make his own choice to either follow blindly others, listen to his own ego and self opinionatedness or turn humbly to the Prophets and beg that their inner ears and eyes be opened.
You reap what you sow. I ignored what others said and searched and found. I was rewarded for my open mindedness, my willingness to accept I may be wrong. Then I discovered something I thought never could possibly be true.
But I can’t give it away. It’s there freely for every sincere person who really seeks truth but depends purely upon each person’s effort to find it.
Do you understand that restating your position isn't the same as explaining it?
And it still seems like a cop-out: you recognize that your position isn't accepted by many other people, but instead of taking this as a sign that your position needs some reflection, you assume that people who don't accept your view are defective.
I've tried to answer that in my philosophy.
Nikosis, BSM1, nPeace and myself are the only ones who responded to the question in the OP. Everybody else is arguing that they don't believe in God and why. Ya know? We've got umpteen billion threads on why folks don't believe in God, and its usually the same things. Obviously the OP puts forward some loaded questions, so I get it. I'm just thinking about how the conversation goes. Columbus gets honorable mention for originality.
Ya know? We've got umpteen billion threads on why folks don't believe in God, and its usually the same things. Obviously the OP puts forward some loaded questions, so I get it. I'm just thinking about how the conversation goes. Columbus gets honorable mention for originality.
Audie
Veteran Member
Audie
Veteran Member
I am afraid I have to most strongly disagree
with your facile assessment.
You simply are one hundred percent wrong
and it would not kill you to accept that.
It absolutely is NOT "almost" comical.
Ya got that???
I've been reading a book lately by one of my favorite theologians. One of the things they observe - and that I agree with - is that one of the major thrusts of religion is to wrestle with big questions. And like wrestling, you can sometimes come out with a bruise or two in the process. Asking the big questions is hard work. It's not that no one can answer them. There are plenty of answers. The important thing is that if you wish to have a religion that is relevant to you and your life - and your religion should be precisely that - you will need to wrestle with difficult questions and find the answers that give your own life meaning. It is not about being "right" in some universal sense. It is about finding answers that are right for you, at a given time, that can change as your life does.
Personally, I do not ask myself any of the questions you put in your OP because they contain theological assumptions I do not share. I'm a polytheist, and our gods are not necessarily "creator" gods. We don't assume the gods are "good" and "just." Nor are our gods immortal or all powerful. But I do ask theological questions... just questions that are grounded in different assumptions. You wrestle with monotheist theology, I wrestle with polytheist theology. Religion done right isn't supposed to be easy.