Islam and Judaism are refuted.

[sooda]

"Jews" doesn't mean the Biblical reference to Israel.

Read Hosea 11:1..

I don't care if you change scripture, but IMO its silly.

 

[YoursTrue]

I am looking at separating the fact from fiction. Take away the embellishments.
Its impossible to understand the OT if you know nothing about Egypt, Persia, Mesopotamia, Syria and Palestine.

Egyptian Empire

I learned this a long time ago. Unless God opens up the way for you to understand it (including the basics without a deep knowledge of Egypt, Persia, etc. as you claim), it is impossible to understand the Bible.

 

[YoursTrue]

Nope.. unless they called paying tribute "slavery". They have invented a history and identity for themselves... but YOU have to reject all other history, written records and archaeology to buy into it.

Moses didn't even know the name of the Pharaoh and he grew up in his household.

He did not write his name. For whatever reason. You keep bringing up scripture as if you have the answer, but don't believe it anyway. Paying forced tribute can be considered slavery, depends. There's more to it. Anyway, have a nice day.

 

[YoursTrue]

Isaiah 9:6 is about King Cyrus.

How do you know?

 

[YoursTrue]

So whats the significance?

Brother. I don't even understand why you even said that. Because whats used in the verse we're discussing is the word. "thehi", the past tense of Hayah. Already happened, not something that's gonna happen in future.

Check Genesis 10:30. Same tense, same word. Past or perfect tense. Already barren. Was. Not will be in the future.

Peace.

Perhaps we can start again. Maybe I'm not understanding you. For instance, what are you specifically saying about Isaiah 9:6 again? Because from what I see the perfect tense of a verb can be used in various ways. To say "a child is born to us," is not common English usage today. Let's say a woman gives birth and the husband is happily telling others about that. For someone to say today, "A son is born to us," rather than "A son has been born," or "A son was born to us," is not the general way of saying that in today's English. Maybe in Elizabethan times, but not now. So translators will have to decide how to look at it and put it in terms we grasp better. That is not saying that all translators think alike.

 

[YoursTrue]

No you won't … There was NO ISAIAH.. It was written by the king of Judah, King Hezekiah who had seen Sargon 2 destroy Israel and settle 4 Arab tribes in Samaria.

So you believe King Hezekiah saw Israel destroyed?

 

[Desert Snake]

Read Hosea 11:1..

I don't care if you change scripture, but IMO its silly.

Hosea 11:12

There's a distinction right there being made, between Judah, where we get Judaic, and Judahite, from, and Israel.

That aside, your argument literally has nothing to do with the fact that this has a religious association, and thusly you must not know that christianity is of course Judaic, at least that is the direct inference from various verses.

Anyways, since you are contradicting yourself, and just presenting anything in whatever context to further your agenda, it's probably not of use to continue arguing this.

 

[sooda]

Hosea 11:12

There's a distinction right there being made, between Judah, where we get Judaic, and Judahite, from, and Israel.

That aside, your argument literally has nothing to do with the fact that this has a religious association, and thusly you must not know that christianity is of course Judaic, at least that is the direct inference from various verses.

Anyways, since you are contradicting yourself, and just presenting anything in whatever context to further your agenda, it's probably not of use to continue arguing this.

Yes, there is a difference between Israel and Judea. Israel was more prosperous.. Judea hated Israel.

What does Hosea 11:1 SAY?

When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

 

[sooda]

So you believe King Hezekiah saw Israel destroyed?

Remember that Hezekiah was king of JUDAH..

According to the Bible, Hezekiah witnessed the destruction of the northern Kingdom of Israel by Sargon's Assyrians in c. 722 BCE and was king of Judah during the siege of Jerusalem by Sennacherib in 701 BCE.

Hezekiah enacted sweeping religious reforms, including a strict mandate for the sole worship of Yahweh and a prohibition on venerating other deities within the Temple of Jerusalem.

 

[Desert Snake]

Yes, there is a difference between Israel and Judea. Israel was more prosperous.. Judea hated Israel.

What does Hosea 11:1 SAY?

When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

What are you trying to prove with that verse?

 

[sooda]

What are you trying to prove with that verse?

Ask yourself WHO "Israel" refers to in this context... Its NOT Jesus.

 

[sooda]

He did not write his name. For whatever reason. You keep bringing up scripture as if you have the answer, but don't believe it anyway. Paying forced tribute can be considered slavery, depends. There's more to it. Anyway, have a nice day.

ALL the Canaanites paid tribute to Pharaoh.. There were lots of successful towns involved in mining or one sort or another and metallurgy and pottery making. Pharaoh protected them with Egyptian garrisons.

 

[Desert Snake]

Ask yourself WHO "Israel" refers to in this context... Its NOT Jesus.

I didn't say it referred to Jesus specifically; jesus is "of Judah" anyway, read the Epistles.

 

[Niblo]

'judaism' is a different religion from the churches that are called Christianity.

You don't say! Well, thank you for pointing that out

Have a nice day.

 

[sooda]

I didn't say it referred to Jesus specifically; jesus is "of Judah" anyway, read the Epistles.

What does that have to do with the meaning of Isaiah and Hosea?

 

[sooda]

How do you know?

Because the Bible says so.

The Persian emperor Cyrus is the only foreigner in the Bible to be identified as the messiah or anointed one of Yahweh, the Israelite God.

Isaiah tells us that Yahweh spoke “to his messiah, to Cyrus, whom I [Yahweh] took by his right hand to subdue nations before him” (Isa 45:1).

The other people called messiah or anointed one in the Bible aren’t designated Yahweh’s messiah, as Cyrus is.

 

[sooda]

Isa 45:1
Cyrus, God's Instrument

1Thus says the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have grasped to subdue nations before him and strip kings of their robes, to open doors before him— and the gates shall not be closed:

 

[YoursTrue]

That is a very loaded question.

I can inform you what Baha'u'llah has revealed on this topic, or offer a view as to what I see the Bible says on this subject, from the view taken from those writings.

Regards Tony

No, it's not a loaded queston. It's a real question. Either what the Bible says is true, or what your source says is true. The Bible says (Ezekiel 18:20), "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."

 

[YoursTrue]

Because the Bible says so.

The Persian emperor Cyrus is the only foreigner in the Bible to be identified as the messiah or anointed one of Yahweh, the Israelite God.

Isaiah tells us that Yahweh spoke “to his messiah, to Cyrus, whom I [Yahweh] took by his right hand to subdue nations before him” (Isa 45:1).

The other people called messiah or anointed one in the Bible aren’t designated Yahweh’s messiah, as Cyrus is.

So you don't think it could have an extended meaning beyond that.

According to tradition first appearing in the Talmud, a compendium of Jewish law redacted in Babylonia at about 500 CE (Bava Batra 14b-15a), the Book of Isaiah was written by King Hezekiah, who reigned from 715 to 686 BCE, and his aides.
Reference: www.haaretz.com/jewish/who-really-wrote-the-book-of-isaiah-1.5431430

715 to 686 BCE you claim from haaretz.com. Do you believe that?
Also, I checked your source for your belief and posit now, and read this from haaretz.com concerning the compendium of Isaiah's scroll:
"Isaiah's strange prophecies are of another ilk: it is hard to imagine for what practical purpose royal scribes would keep prophecies such as “And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them” (3:4). How would they check up on this prophecy to see if it indeed comes to pass?"
Yes, the question certainly can be: how would they "check up" on this prophecy to see if it came to pass? Yes indeed. Which is one reason why the scriptures did not stop being written after Isaiah's book. Which you at least admit was written (or redacted) a long time ago.
Do you believe in God by the way?

 

[YoursTrue]

Isa 45:1
Cyrus, God's Instrument

1Thus says the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have grasped to subdue nations before him and strip kings of their robes, to open doors before him— and the gates shall not be closed:

By the way, did that happen? Even if you and others may believe it was written after supposedly it happened?