firedragon
Veteran Member
Actually the number of Imams is in the Tanakh and Torah as well.
So I was right. This was your aim all along.
No worries mate. I am not gonna discuss this at all. Cheers.
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Actually the number of Imams is in the Tanakh and Torah as well.
I don't know Hebrew but I know how to not miss the forest for the trees. In which you miss the forest for the trees.
I'm talking about the covenant of law, delivered to Moses and the lsraelites. This covenant was not a covenant of faith.The Covenant with Jews was and is "everlasting" as well, and at least some Christian denominations have finally come to realize and acknowledge it.
Given that many forests contains trees most normal people can easily see the difference between vegation found in a forest.
By like token a person who knows no Arabic could claim to be a Quranic scholar and literally contradict (أركان الإسلام) found in the Arabic text. They could also claim that they see the forest from the trees better than any Muslim. If I interpret the Quran in Hebrew differently than Muslims interepret it in Arabic am I authoratative to Muslims?
Thats not how you should present it. I will give you an example.
Arkaanu islami does typically mean pillars of islam. But in all actuality, it is a definition of the pillars or what ever you wish to call it. Arkan actually means the corners that provide strength to the structure. Not necessarily pillars.
I agree with you. That is actually why I used it that way. I.e. using Link's line of logic, I am a better Quranic expert than anyone who is fluent in Arabic, knows the Quran, knows the culture it comes from, etc. just because I think I am. Thus, I can now tell any Muslim that I see the forest from the trees when it comes to their system.
Being a reasonable person I would never make such a claim.
"If that is what you consider to be true then why does it matter to you what we Jews say?" That is the question I often want to ask when threads are started as if they are asking questions to Jews when instead what is being posted is a statement or manifesto. That is not to say that some people aren't actually asking honest questions. I am speaking about a minority of situations where someone really isn't.
Just for the sake of brevity there is a real simply way to understand why Torah based Jews don't buy into Christian theology.
- If what you beleive as a Christian makes you happy then you keep it. It is yours, enjoy. You won't get any arguement from most Jews about what you personally beleive. We are not here to try to convince you to take on our views.
It was and is a "Covenant of Faith", as keeping the Law is a large part of that faith per what is says in Torah and elsewhere throughout the entire Tanach.I'm talking about the covenant of law, delivered to Moses and the lsraelites. This covenant was not a covenant of faith.
That is not easy to answer in brief because the application of the Law is somewhat different between Jews and Christians-- and yet at the same time it isn't that different. I'll briefly explain.Do you believe that men are justified by 'works of the law'?
And, really, I am fine with that. It isn't really our job to "convince" anyone but rather just share and, as it was said of the Jews in Thessalonica, they searched the scriptures themselves to see if it was so.
Greetings. Didn't you say last time that it was the Jews of Berea that did that? Not to sound like a broken record but are there are any modern day Christians who descend from the Jews in Thessalonica? Who were some of the leaders of the Jews in Thessalonica? Where they reading in Greek or Hebrew?
It's not about loving with our own love, but loving with God's love. The NT is clear in distinguishing between the righteousness of man, and the righteousness of God.It was and is a "Covenant of Faith", as keeping the Law is a large part of that faith per what is says in Torah and elsewhere throughout the entire Tanach.
That is not easy to answer in brief because the application of the Law is somewhat different between Jews and Christians-- and yet at the same time it isn't that different. I'll briefly explain.
Jesus synthecized the 613 Commandents found in Torah down to Two Commandments: love of God and love of neighbor. He was not the first Jew to do this as Hillel taught this when asked what Torah was really about: "I can answer this standing on one leg, namely to not do unto others that which you do not want done unto to yourself. The rest is commentary, now go study." Basically, that's the Golden Rule stated in an alternative way.
So, are we to live out of the "law of love"? Absolutely, and that is the gist also believed in within Judaism.
Where they reading in Greek or Hebrew?
Given that many forests contains trees most normal people can easily see the difference between vegation found in a forest.
By like token a person who knows no Arabic could claim to be a Quranic scholar and literally contradict (أركان الإسلام) found in the Arabic text. They could also claim that they see the forest from the trees better than any Muslim. If I interpret the Quran in Hebrew differently than Muslims interepret it in Arabic am I authoratative to Muslims?
So I was right. This was your aim all along.
No worries mate. I am not gonna discuss this at all. Cheers.
I didn't bring up the Twelve and Prophecies of Mohammad (s) up, I'm emphasizing something very simple, chosen ones are leaders appointed by God and their leadership and chosen position is emphasized in the Tanakh. In fact, it does then more then anything else.
You brought up the issue of Shiism, to me Shiism is the true interpretation of religion so of course I'm going to see that in all holy books including the Gospels and Tanakh.
As far as "modern day who descended from the Jews ", it brought a chuckle for me. I can't even figure out who my great, great grandad is. - 2000 years is quite a journey along with world wars et al.
It was common, back then, to read the Septuagint. I would "assume" that some read Hebrew too. Greek was an international language and Latin was fairly common too.
Why do you ask?
My point is the Tanakh emphasizes on special servants of God such Elijah, Moses, etc, they are emphasized with many and important characteristics and these chosen are the foundation of the religion. Also, from what I read I can see Mohammad (s) in the Tanakh.
I can't completely make out all of the names, so maybe you could tell me: Are there any Tanach-Era names here that don't appear in Tanach?Below is a family tree of the Tzelahh family from Yemen that goes from Ya'aqov (Jacob) into the 1500's.
What you are stating are purely Quranic concepts and commentary. It is also not something you found when you sat down and the read the Tanakh in Hebrew, because as you admitted, you can't read Hebrew.
By like Token I would not attempt to try and tell you that the Quran states that Torah based Jews have been and will be perfectly okay and have preserved the (التوراة) correctly based on the following.
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