Why Torah based Jews would be unconvinced

[rosends]

The Torah begins with after the story of Adam with emphasizing Adam who was the image of God was succeeded by someone set by God, hence called Seth, which came from the words "set by God".

This leads to Enoch and Noah, and you see the importance of successorship with regards to leadership appointed by God. When we get to Abraham, we see people like Jacob and Joseph are special, and not all this children are equal. There are special chosen ones from his offspring.

They succeed his position in leading humanity and believers upon the straight path.

The very start the name "Seth" is emphasized to be set by God and hence this is a contrast to the corrupt leaders who named themselves with the name of God from people of Noah. Samuel means name of God and hence we see there is a contrast that God can set up people who are his name but no one else allowed to claim this position. Leadership is emphasized to be from God while leadership not from God leads astray.

The name Shet (often transliterated as Seth) means "provided" and the verse has Adam explaining that the person was provided by God in place of the dead Abel, but this explanation is Adam's and God's name does not appear in Seth's name. No one is appointed and God makes no statement here. Also, no one names himself.

 

[Link]

Provided, set by, made by, established by, they all same meaning here, it's God providing and establishing the chosen leadership and not for anyone else to claim religious leadership.

 

[rosends]

Provided, set by, made by, established by, they all same meaning here, it's God providing and establishing the chosen leadership and not for anyone else to claim religious leadership.

But that's inaccurate. God provided a replacement for a dead child. There is nothing about God setting up leadership -- that's not at all what the verse, itself says.

 

[Link]

This is why Quran tells believers not to take religious authorities anyone but God and his Messenger and those who gave security (Ali and his successors - the family of Mohammad). Despite how much the the Torah and Tanakh emphasized on God choosing leadership in chosen ones such as Joseph over others and that the corruption all came from when people took idols among humans from one side and the other side is that people named themselves with the name of God and lead people astray, while Samuel means name of God and hence the images and names of God are for God to appoint. Still people miss the over all theme of the Tanakh and get lost in details.

 

[Link]

But that's inaccurate. God provided a replacement for a dead child. There is nothing about God setting up leadership -- that's not at all what the verse, itself says.

That's you reading that way, if you read it holistically people in the Torah are named for special reasons by God. The Torah begins with this, and them emphasizes leadership not set/provided by God lead everyone astray and destruction of people of Noah was because people named themselves with the name of God from one side of the coin, the other side is idolatry, if people were sincere to God they would have followed Noah but they loved their leaders as much or more then God which lead them to reject God's chosen. All this leads back to the beginning which is why the emphasis on set/establish/provided by God is emphasized on.

 

[rosends]

Joseph was named using the same formula -- the parent acknowledging that a child was added to the family by the grace of God. Nothing about leadership.

 

[Link]

Joseph was named using the same formula -- the parent acknowledging that a child was added to the family by the grace of God. Nothing about leadership.

Everything about leadership is there, because God emphasizes on Kingship and Authority of Abraham and his offspring, and than not everyone is a king chosen by God from his offspring, but special people like Joseph. You being truly obtuse.

 

[Link]

People who can't see Tanakh emphasizes on God's chosen such as Elijah vs non-chosen leaders/prophets/seers/soothsayers like the opponents Elijah faced and they couldn't perform miracles while he can, are missing the forest for a tree here and there. They lose sight of the forest for trees emphasized by their clergy.

The main theme of the Tanakh undoubtedly is about God's anointed kings vs authorities not appointed by God that by nature are the anti-choice of God. Their kingship is there whether people accept it or not, because it pertains to the next world and the consequences and benefits thereof.

 

[rosends]

Everything about leadership is there, because God emphasizes on Kingship and Authority of Abraham and his offspring, and than not everyone is a king chosen by God from his offspring, but special people like Joseph. You being truly obtuse.

You are being selective and ignoring what the text says. Joseph is named by others, not himself, in reflection of his being born to a woman who had no other children. Making other stuff up and then saying it is significant is intellectually dishonest.

 

[Link]

It's you who is being selective and ignoring a whole entire big theme in the Tanakh about chosen special servants of God such as Abraham, Joseph, etc.

 

[Link]

You are being selective and ignoring what the text says. Joseph is named by others, not himself, in reflection of his being born to a woman who had no other children. Making other stuff up and then saying it is significant is intellectually dishonest.

And Moses was named by wife of the Pharaoh, doesn't change that God had a special meaning intended aside from what she intended.

 

[firedragon]

And Moses was named by wife of the Pharaoh, doesn't change that God had a special meaning intended aside from what she intended.

Link. What are you trying to argue here? Sorry, I am not following your trail of thought.

 

[metis]

The covenant that Jesus renews becomes an everlasting covenant, not a covenant of law.

The Covenant with Jews was and is "everlasting" as well, and at least some Christian denominations have finally come to realize and acknowledge it.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

But that's inaccurate. God provided a replacement for a dead child. There is nothing about God setting up leadership -- that's not at all what the verse, itself says.

What he is describing is how Muslims view Shet from the Quran not what is in the Hebrew Torah. There are times that "some" Muslims think that information that is in Quran is common with the Hebrew Torah, when there are times that it isn't.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

It's you who is being selective and ignoring a whole entire big theme in the Tanakh about chosen special servants of God such as Abraham, Joseph, etc.

Just for transprancy. Do you know Hebrew and do you read from a Hebrew Tanakh?

There are certain concepts that you are stating that are purely from the Quran and are not from the Hebrew Torah. I think some people are confused by you not making the distinction.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Link. What are you trying to argue here? Sorry, I am not following your trail of thought.

This is what Link is referencing.

 

[firedragon]

This is what Link is referencing.

View attachment 57218

Okay. Now I understand the agenda. Thanks for that.

I know where this ends. This is not a scholarly response to the Bible or anything of the sort. This is "preaching". Its post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

I can predict that this is gonna end with the establishment of the 12 imams of the Shii faith. This will start from Adam, Seth, and so on and so on and end up with the last Shii imam who did not die but was taken into occulation. Sorry I just didnt get it right away.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Okay. Now I understand the agenda. Thanks for that. Sorry I just didnt get it right away.

No problem. That is why I am here. Free of charge.

 

[Link]

Okay. Now I understand the agenda. Thanks for that.

I know where this ends. This is not a scholarly response to the Bible or anything of the sort. This is "preaching". Its post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

I can predict that this is gonna end with the establishment of the 12 imams of the Shii faith. This will start from Adam, Seth, and so on and so on and end up with the last Shii imam who did not die but was taken into occulation. Sorry I just didnt get it right away.

Actually the number of Imams is in the Tanakh and Torah as well.

 

[Link]

Just for transprancy. Do you know Hebrew and do you read from a Hebrew Tanakh?

There are certain concepts that you are stating that are purely from the Quran and are not from the Hebrew Torah. I think some people are confused by you not making the distinction.

I don't know Hebrew but I know how to not miss the forest for the trees. In which you miss the forest for the trees.