Why Multiverse?

[YoursTrue]

There are no doubts that human rulers can be vicious, and I am not condoning any criminal or immoral actions by any ruler.

But if god is controlling the pharaoh’s actions, as the exodus say god is doing, then the pharaoh have no free will, and really the fault lies with god.

I don't agree because God knows the heart but doesn't control it, just like a serial killer can be psychoanalyzed and the doctor may try to change him, or find out what makes him tick, but can't. The expression that He hardened Pharaoh's heart does not mean that He literally made Pharaoh think a certain way. But it is clear to me so far that He knew Pharaoh's mindset and He presented a set of circumstances to Pharaoh that He knew would cause him to become recalcitrant and implacable. Otherwise, Pharaoh would have felt sorry for the Israelites and allow them to worship their God. Pharaoh did not feel sorry for the Israelites, and he also was pitting himself against Moses and Aaron, who had God's backing.

Take Judas’ treachery for example.

1. If Judas betrayed Jesus from no known external entity or external force, then Judas is fully responsible for his own actions.
2. If the devil or Satan possess him to commit treachery, as the gospels narrated what occurred, then he has no free will, so Satan is really to blame.
3. But if it is God’s will that Jesus would be arrested, so that he can be crucified, died and be resurrected, then God had manipulated the devil into causing Judas to betray Jesus “as planned”, then ultimately God is responsible for everything that took place, then the devil and Judas were merely pawns playing God’s game.

The same thing about god manipulating Moses and the pharaoh as pawns in his game.

You need to remember that it all started with God offering covenant to the 3 patriarchs - Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that their descendants would occupy Canaan. But first he made Jacob migrated his clan into Egypt, where they will be freed and led by Moses to Canaan, which they will eventually invade and settle.

Were all these events happened because God made it that way, him being omnipotent and omniscient. If so, then there were really no free will.

True that God made promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I can't go into the post much beyond Pharaoh right now unless you want to make it a separate subject. It gets deep. Also, I'm not perfect, but I try to understand it as best I can. I realize you're talking perhaps about free will, or lack of it, and although God sees the future if He wants to and knows how to fulfill His purpose. He allows free choice: - ***Deuteronomy 30:19 - "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live." ***
Also remember the prayer Jesus taught -- which would make no sense if, in fact, free will were not a factor in the human conscience: "YOUR will be done." Thus, Jesus prayed for God's will to be done. Not someone else's will. Why would he have done that if it were not possible for someone else's will to be done in such an important matter?

 

[YoursTrue]

There are no doubts that human rulers can be vicious, and I am not condoning any criminal or immoral actions by any ruler.

But if god is controlling the pharaoh’s actions, as the exodus say god is doing, then the pharaoh have no free will, and really the fault lies with god.

Take Judas’ treachery for example.

1. If Judas betrayed Jesus from no known external entity or external force, then Judas is fully responsible for his own actions.
2. If the devil or Satan possess him to commit treachery, as the gospels narrated what occurred, then he has no free will, so Satan is really to blame.
3. But if it is God’s will that Jesus would be arrested, so that he can be crucified, died and be resurrected, then God had manipulated the devil into causing Judas to betray Jesus “as planned”, then ultimately God is responsible for everything that took place, then the devil and Judas were merely pawns playing God’s game.

The same thing about god manipulating Moses and the pharaoh as pawns in his game.

You need to remember that it all started with God offering covenant to the 3 patriarchs - Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that their descendants would occupy Canaan. But first he made Jacob migrated his clan into Egypt, where they will be freed and led by Moses to Canaan, which they will eventually invade and settle.

Were all these events happened because God made it that way, him being omnipotent and omniscient. If so, then there were really no free will.

Speaking of which (your first sentence), if human rulers can be vicious (and yes, they can be), who would be higher in judgment than human judgments and rulers?

 

[gnostic]

I don't agree because God knows the heart but doesn't control it, just like a serial killer can be psychoanalyzed and the doctor may try to change him, or find out what makes him tick, but can't. The expression that He hardened Pharaoh's heart does not mean that He literally made Pharaoh think a certain way. But it is clear to me so far that He knew Pharaoh's mindset and He presented a set of circumstances to Pharaoh that He knew would cause him to become recalcitrant and implacable. Otherwise, Pharaoh would have felt sorry for the Israelites and allow them to worship their God. Pharaoh did not feel sorry for the Israelites, and he also was pitting himself against Moses and Aaron, who had God's backing.

True that God made promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I can't go into the post much beyond Pharaoh right now unless you want to make it a separate subject. It gets deep. Also, I'm not perfect, but I try to understand it as best I can. I realize you're talking perhaps about free will, or lack of it, and although God sees the future if He wants to and knows how to fulfill His purpose. He allows free choice: - ***Deuteronomy 30:19 - "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live." ***
Also remember the prayer Jesus taught -- which would make no sense if, in fact, free will were not a factor in the human conscience: "YOUR will be done." Thus, Jesus prayed for God's will to be done. Not someone else's will. Why would he have done that if it were not possible for someone else's will to be done in such an important matter?

If God is controlling a person’s behavior (eg the pharaoh), person’s action, and directing all the outcomes, then no, that person don’t have free will.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, thank you. And when Pharaoh chased after the Israelites as his last ploy (he still didn't want to give in and give the Israelites the opportunity to worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses...), he and his horsemen didn't make it.

I like how you point out that Pharaoh still didn't give in at the Red Sea, but of his own free will went in.
Yes, (unlike the 10 Commandments movie ) both Pharaoh and his horsemen didn't make it - Exodus 15:4,1,21; Psalms 136:15.
I've heard people comment that the Hebrews wanted to return back to Egypt to return to slavery.
Since Pharaoh and his army drowned in the sea, I would think those Hebrews would think they could return to Egypt because they would No longer be in slavery because they would No longer have slave masters over them.
Any thoughts.......

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If God is controlling a person’s behavior (eg the pharaoh), person’s action, and directing all the outcomes, then no, that person don’t have free will.

God allowed or permitted the hardening of Pharaoh's heart.
Please notice Exodus 8:15; Exodus 8:32 because Pharaoh hardened his own heart.
Pharaoh was given ' enough rope to hang himself ', so to speak.
Each plague was an opportunity for Pharaoh to soften his heart or not.
Each plague was an occasion for Pharaoh to work out the wickedness in his heart or not.
God did Not direct Pharaoh to go into the Red Sea after the Hebrews.

 

[ecco]

No, it doesn't make my God sound petty. It makes Him sound great because He had a purpose to fulfill.

Plenty of opportunity for Pharaoh to be working out the wickedness in his heart.

The beauty of being a God is that your followers believe all things you did were good. They refuse to believe their God could do anything bad. They rationalize everything to support that belief.

God horrifically killed almost all humans and animals. They were drowned in mudslides and rapidly rising water. But it was good because God had to cleanse the earth of sinners.

Is it only rational people who wonder how badly most lambs and kittens and little two-year-old girls and five-month fetuses sinned for God to have slaughtered them?

 

[ecco]

Especially the last plague because the death of Pharaoh's first born was the death of a god.
So, it convinced both the Egyptians and Hebrews as to who was the true God.

So, in addition to killing most of mankind and most of the animals, God continued on his rampage and killed another god.

I guess that explains why we humans, who are created in his image, are such violent people.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So, in addition to killing most of mankind and most of the animals, God continued on his rampage and killed another god.
I guess that explains why we humans, who are created in his image, are such violent people.

I find there is a BIG difference between ' killing, murder and an execution ' for the sake of justice.
We don't know as of yet if there was a problem concerning those animals that died in the Flood.
Maybe some sort of spreading disease was happening at that time frame.
Jesus is the one who will destroy the ' god of this world' of badness - 2 Corinthians 4:4; Hebrews 2:14 B.
I find that God's Son aka Jesus was Not violent, and Jesus was a ' chip off the Old Block ' so to speak.
Jesus taught to have self-sacrificing love for others at John 13:34-35.
In other words, we are to love neighbor MORE than self, more than the Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18.
Violent people will come to their end for the 'sword-like executional words from Jesus' mouth' will rid the Earth of the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15.
Notice who remains according to Proverbs 2:21-22

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The beauty of being a God is that your followers believe all things you did were good. They refuse to believe their God could do anything bad. They rationalize everything to support that belief.
God horrifically killed almost all humans and animals. They were drowned in mudslides and rapidly rising water. But it was good because God had to cleanse the earth of sinners.
Is it only rational people who wonder how badly most lambs and kittens and little two-year-old girls and five-month fetuses sinned for God to have slaughtered them?

Parents are responsible for minor children - 1 Corinthians 7:14
( Nothing to do with sinning 2-yr olds, etc.)
Remember in Noah's day: Noah and family were the only upright people left.
The children of 'those' violent parents would have grown up to be violent like them.
In other words, those violent people would have killed off everyone righteous. That is why God had to act.
Without divine involvement we simply would Not be here now.
Earth was created for upright or righteous people, Not violent people - Genesis 6:11 B.
This is why the 'sword-like words from Jesus' mouth' will be doing away with those beyond reform, beyond repentance - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15

 

[shunyadragon]

You are talking about 100 % probability of life on Earth after life has emerged on Earth. That all information you gave here.

Any estimate of the probability of the existence of a life on earth-like planet must include the whole universe throughout the history of billions of universe. The probability for a number of such planers somewhere in the universe is 100%.

 

[YoursTrue]

If God is controlling a person’s behavior (eg the pharaoh), person’s action, and directing all the outcomes, then no, that person don’t have free will.

If God were controlling Pharaoh's behavior, He would not have placed the plagues in front of Pharaoh.

 

[YoursTrue]

I like how you point out that Pharaoh still didn't give in at the Red Sea, but of his own free will went in.
Yes, (unlike the 10 Commandments movie ) both Pharaoh and his horsemen didn't make it - Exodus 15:4,1,21; Psalms 136:15.
I've heard people comment that the Hebrews wanted to return back to Egypt to return to slavery.
Since Pharaoh and his army drowned in the sea, I would think those Hebrews would think they could return to Egypt because they would No longer be in slavery because they would No longer have slave masters over them.
Any thoughts.......

Thinking about the subject of the Israelites and Moses, etc., as some object that there are no records historically beyond the Bible, I wonder what people think happened when the Hebrews were in Israel..
The Hebrews showed a selfish longing for the food they ate while slaves, rather than appreciation for their freedom and opportunity to serve God. When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness by the Devil, the first offer the Devil made to him was food. Matthew 4. Of course, Jesus rejected the offer by the Devil.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In that case, one might wonder why you and I and others are here.

Why?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I have mind-vision. I have presented a logical theory,

All I have ever seen you present, is word salad intermixed with misrepresentations of science motivated by religious dogma.

which is not debunked yet by you

Nonsense doesn't require debunking. Only exposure.

Thus, according to Presumption of Innocence, the theory adequately describes reality.

//facepalm
The exact opposite is true.

Under the presumption of innocence, any idea is rejected until sufficient evidence is presented to accept it.
Meaning that your "theory" would be "guilty of being accurate" once you have sufficient evidence in support of it.

Until then, your "theory" is considered "innocent" of being accurate.

A defendant isn't required to "prove his innocence".
The accuser - the one making the claim - is required to make his case instead.

Here, YOU are the one making the claim.
Your ideas aren't valid by default "until proven wrong".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You are not above the gods. All humans have a god. Including atheists.

An atheist with a god, is like a married bachelor.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

\subsection{Truth as God of Science}
Science is not going to change just because you want it so badly.
Because Science is like a proud beautiful lady, like the one in the
clip ``Roxy Music -- Avalon'' YouTube. Established proud beings are
of eternal value, they cannot be changing against their will:
``Sophie Ellis Bextor -- Won't change you'' on YouTube.

Editor: ``Has it ever occurred to you to look at the basis of
your logic, reasoning, and understanding? Since your ideas run
into opposition with journal reviewers, perhaps it is you that
needs to change and not the rest of the world.''

I have accepted Lord Jesus as my healer. The outside population
dislikes Him and thinks that His words are crazy: ``And when His
friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on Him: for they said,
He is beside Himself.'' Mark 3:21. It is not necessarily true in my
case because I am not running amok. Please recall that I have
publications in some top journals. Do I have to give you the
references? So, I suggest you enjoy my unusual brain pattern.
Nobody involved has expressed regret for murdering my Lord. The
world needs some positive change, in my opinion, not so much me.

Humans can hardly survive without the basis of personality, it
is their god. We can freely choose a god. Material gods are a
statue of Zeus, Shiva, Perun, in absence of my God the functions
of god can take human leaders like Buddha, Stalin, Putin, Trump,
Elvis Presley; leading atheists like Dr. Richard Dawkins and
Dr. Steven Hawking; bands like Beatles and Queens. Because I am
a truth seeker by profession (I am a scientist) I know that my God
is Spirit; it means, He is not material. His holy name is
Absolute/Objective Truth because He is the Spirit of Truth. And the
Truth says: ``If anyone is ashamed of Me and My words in this
adulterous and sinful generation, I will be ashamed of them.''
Mark 8:38.

Why then Adolf Hitler is an Absolute Monster and mother Theresa is
an Absolute Saint, if according to the amazing genetical research,
the total difference between their organisms should be less than 0.1 \%?
Hereby the genetic difference between chimps and the well-educated
Mother Theresa is less than 2 \%. It is because immortal souls exist.
The souls of Hitler and Theresa are perfectly 100 percent different
from each other. Therefore, God exists, He is the Spirit of Saints.
And satan exists, he is the spirit of sinners and disbelievers (because
there is no ``neutral'' god).

Mother Theresa is not a saint.
She is an evil woman who believed in letting people suffer.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

First humans evolved around that time

The homo genus you mean?

Homo Sapiens isn't millions of years old.
H Sapiens is generally considered to be about 200-250k years old.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Are you a god? Or god to someone? Maybe yourself? Hey, that's an idea -- maybe you're your own god. Or is it your mother or your father that are gods? After all -- you say they created you, right? Or evolved you, I suppose. You evolved from them. Maybe. Or the law of dynamic energy is your god since "it' created you via your mama and poppa. Anyway, maybe I'll see ya sometime in the future. Bye for now...

You are all over the place. Except in those places where things make sense.

 

[ChristineM]

The homo genus you mean?

Homo Sapiens isn't millions of years old.
H Sapiens is generally considered to be about 200-250k years old.

Yes

 

[ecco]

I find there is a BIG difference between ' killing, murder and an execution ' for the sake of justice.

It really doesn't matter what you want to call it. It was genocide of the highest order. It was genocide executed by your god because he was disappointed by how his creations turned out.

Although, you really need to accept the fact that your omniscient god knew, long before he created Adam, that he was going to kill almost all humans.

We don't know as of yet if there was a problem concerning those animals that died in the Flood.
Maybe some sort of spreading disease was happening at that time frame.

Maybe? If you find yourself making up stories to justify your god's brutality, then you need to ask yourself why you have to make up stories to justify your god's brutality.

I find that God's Son aka Jesus was Not violent, and Jesus was a ' chip off the Old Block ' so to speak.
Jesus taught to have self-sacrificing love for others at John 13:34-35.

No chip off of anything. Jesus is part and parcel of the entity known as God. Your arms are not separate from the rest of your body. The flood god's brutality is Jesus' brutality. The holy ghost's impregnation of the young virgin Mary was Jesus' impregnation of the young virgin Mary.