What are the best arguments in favor of theism and against atheism?

[MonkeyFire]

Well sex technically creates life unless they are capable of parthenogenesis.

For love you need a nature or you can't feel atraction.

Hope comes from many things outside of belief.

Faith with life as a constituent, creates Hope.

Nirvana is typically associated with Buddhism and I am not sure how it fits into Christianity unless your title is misleading.

Faith is hedonistic it creates nirvana.

 

[ratiocinator]

You made up bs about my posts to boost your ego, that is lying

Be specific - as I said, if you point out something I've said that is untrue, I will withdraw it.

If you read my post properly you will note i stated this universe is potentially infinite but has a measurable start date, if it can be measured then it cannot be physically infinite. Or do you disagrwe that infinity is unmeasurable?

Yes, it has a measurable (apparent) start date - but that doesn't really have a bearing. Obviously we can only directly measure the observable universe, for the simple reason that we can't measure what we can't observe. I cited three articles, including NASA's Universe 101, that explained why the total size of the universe was likely to be much larger than the observable universe and that there are indications that it might be infinite. If you need more confirmation, you could try your own search, they really weren't hard to find. Any basic book on cosmology is likely to explain it too.

As for measuring the universe

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5743624/how-can-we-measure-the-size-of-the-universe

Read it and give yourself a basic grounding in cosmology.

If you'd have read it yourself, you might have realized that he is talking about the observable universe.

 

[arthra]

What arguments do you believe point to there being a God or gods and why do you think this makes more sense than the idea that there are no gods? I am personally a non-believer but I would greatly like to hear arguments against this position and possibly find a religion that at least makes sense.

I'm glad you posted your question Lorgar!

In my view we don't necessarily have to view non-belief and belief as polar opposites. Skepticism and independent investigation are part of our make up and we can go through a process where we test our beliefs over time.. All of us as humans have natural curiosity and need to ask and inquire in our development.

The same is true with the development of our ideas and beliefs... We may be exposed as children to many ideas from our parents or teachers that as adolescents we will test and explore later in life. So I see atheists very often as honest inquirers that are seeking answers. In my lifetime I've gone through stages of inquiry and dis belief largely because I didn't have all the facts or resources to understand things... so belief and nonbelief are inmy view necessary stages we all can pass through with confidence that truth is worth the effort to explore and be open with each other.

 

[Nous]

Yep.. It can also be easily solved by an eternal system..or a simulated system... or a system that is a part of another system.. or a system, that is one on billions of systems and so on.

What does any of that mean? The cause of the energy of the universe does not exist within the closed system of the universe. If the (known) universe is part of a larger system, then that total system is the closed system, and the energy of that total system was not caused within the system. An infinite regress doesn't resolve the issue.

 

[Cephus]

There are no good arguments in favor of theism. It's all delusional nonsense.

 

[ChristineM]

Be specific - as I said, if you point out something I've said that is untrue, I will withdraw it.


Yes, it has a measurable (apparent) start date - but that doesn't really have a bearing. Obviously we can only directly measure the observable universe, for the simple reason that we can't measure what we can't observe. I cited three articles, including NASA's Universe 101, that explained why the total size of the universe was likely to be much larger than the observable universe and that there are indications that it might be infinite. If you need more confirmation, you could try your own search, they really weren't hard to find. Any basic book on cosmology is likely to explain it too.


If you'd have read it yourself, you might have realized that he is talking about the observable universe.

I am not searching back through your posts just to satisfy your ego. I commented on it at the time, you showed no inclination to withdraw then.

Oh right, you say the universe cant be measured except tjst it can be measured... Right got ya

Likely does not cut the mustard. The size of the observable universe is known, from that it can be inferred (speed of light) how big the physical universe is. Of course if the speed of light varies hat size will chsnge but in the near vacuum of space thst speed remains fasirly constant.

I don't really care how you feel you must limit the conversation to specific, i did not mention or imply the observable universe as a limit, in fact i specifically mentioned 93 billion light years. Thus indicating the size of the university, not just the bit we can see.

 

[Sanmario]

Dear readers here, as I said yesterday, I will start my daily posting here with my concept of God at the top of my post, so here it is, my concept of God:

"My concept of God:

"God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."
_____________________


This thread is about: "What are the best arguments in favor of theism and against atheism?"

The best argument starts with the concept of God, because if you don't start with the concept of concern, no one can be sure of what you are arguing for at all, perhaps something like a flying spaghetti monster or some deity of Greek mythology? when today we are expected to talk straight and direct and to the point of relevant concern, keeping to reason and observation and thus intelligent conclusion, which relevant concern in this thread is about the best arguments for theism or the advocacy of the existence of God, as follows.

[And here again is my preamble to my argument for the existence of God, my post from yesterday.]

My concept of God:

"God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."

Please everyone, present your concept of God, so that we can work as to concur on it, because the OP is about God (or gods).

"What arguments do you believe point to there being a God or gods and why do you think this makes more sense than the idea that there are no gods? I am personally a non-believer but I would greatly like to hear arguments against this position and possibly find a religion that at least makes sense."​

Dear everyone here, please do not be afraid or be into taboo and phobia with coming out presenting your concept of God, because otherwise you are conducting yourself direction-less.

From now on I will be writing a post everyday with my concept of God at the top of my post, and a challenge to you all to present your concept of God.

God or gods? Well, to be relevant, just keep to God in the three monotheistic religions: Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, that will narrow down the scope of your efforts, if you do exert some to come up with your concept of God, or look up the dictionaries of English, and pick up a definition of God, which is the one mentioned in the West when that word God is used by adherents of the three monotheistic religions.

So, when you write next, please take the task to present your concept of God.

No need to go into religions which according to you do not have God or gods, we are concerned here as per the author of this thread with God or gods.

#136 Yesterday at 2:55 AM ​

 

[Sanmario]

Dear readers and posters, I can understand you when you are annoyed with my repeated mentions of my concept of God, namely:

"God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."

Please dissimulate your annoyance, instead you do the same as I do, repeat endlessly your concept of God, but also in between expound on your argument the best one for God existing.

Now, if you are expounding on your argument against God existing, please also repeat time and again your concept of God, so that everyone will be cognizant of your concept of God, which you are arguing to be not existing.

That is the way to assure everyone that you know what you are talking about. namely, God in accordance to your concept (of).

 

[Sanmario]

I am leaving this thread.

 

[ChristineM]

Dear readers and posters, I can understand you when you are annoyed with my repeated mentions of my concept of God, namely:

"God in concept is first and foremost the creator and operator of the universe and man and everything with a beginning."

Please dissimulate your annoyance, instead you do the same as I do, repeat endlessly your concept of God, but also in between expound on your argument the best one for God existing.

Now, if you are expounding on your argument against God existing, please also repeat time and again your concept of God, so that everyone will be cognizant of your concept of God, which you are arguing to be not existing.

That is the way to assure everyone that you know what you are talking about. namely, God in accordance to your concept (of).

Honey, don't big yourself up so much, your ego will burst. No one cares about your delusion, never mind a concept of your mind, try evidence, people will respect it far more.

 

[Regolith Based Lifeforms]

I am leaving this thread.

YAY!

 

[Regolith Based Lifeforms]

I think he

Honey, don't big yourself up so much, your ego will burst. No one cares about your delusion, never mind a concept of your mind, try evidence, people will respect it far more.

You ran him off, you thread killing troll!
LMAO!!!

 

[ChristineM]

I think he

You ran him off, you thread killing troll!
LMAO!!!

Awe, that was not my aim, i just wanted to see a little honesty. I know it's a lot to ask of a god believer but i live in hopes.

 

[1AOA1]

I've just read through this entire thread and have not seen anything like a convincing argument for any god.

It is true that a definition is required, but that is down to those who propose the existence of a god/some gods. I consider myself to be an atheist because I have never been presented with a definition and argument for any gods that isn't obviously flawed (leaving aside some odd definitions of 'god' that are pretty much synonymous with the universe or a physical object).

I cannot rule out that, in the whole of reality, there might exist something that would fit somebody's definition of a god, but is there nobody who can provide any evidence or reasoning to take the notion out of the merely possible (along with all sorts of other unfalsifiable mythology) and into the probable?

Christianity can also make a determination as to if the type and extent of evidence that the conditions and instrumentation of materialism can receive is available to them.

 

[Segev Moran]

What does any of that mean? The cause of the energy of the universe does not exist within the closed system of the universe. If the (known) universe is part of a larger system, then that total system is the closed system, and the energy of that total system was not caused within the system. An infinite regress doesn't resolve the issue.

You refer to the universe as something that is of limits.
How can you know if it is so?

On the same account, I could present the question of God as a closed system.
What I'm actually trying to say is, That God, And the Universe are Both yet to be known.

Is there a god? Maybe.
Is the universe endless? Maybe.
NO ONE REALLY KNOWS.

The loop is endless...
No matter what we discover and learn, always will we still ask the question, What came first?

 

[Nous]

You refer to the universe as something that is of limits.
How can you know if it is so?

On the same account, I could present the question of God as a closed system.
What I'm actually trying to say is, That God, And the Universe are Both yet to be known.

Is there a god? Maybe.
Is the universe endless? Maybe.
NO ONE REALLY KNOWS.

The loop is endless...
No matter what we discover and learn, always will we still ask the question, What came first?

One thing we do know is that, short of a gross violation of the law of conservation of energy, the energy of the closed system of the universe (however big one wishes to make the system of "the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated," Definition of UNIVERSE ) was a creation from outside the system.

 

[Falvlun]

I think the greatest evidence in favor of gods is that so many people throughout all human history have claimed to have a personal experience with gods.

Obviously, this isn't rock solid, since things like delusions and self-fulfilling prophecies exist.

But, at the end of the day, most of what we know is because we, or other humans, have experienced something. And if a bunch of people experience the same thing, then that lends credence to the experience being actual.

 

[ChristineM]

I think the greatest evidence in favor of gods is that so many people throughout all human history have claimed to have a personal experience with gods.

Obviously, this isn't rock solid, since things like delusions and self-fulfilling prophecies exist.

But, at the end of the day, most of what we know is because we, or other humans, have experienced something. And if a bunch of people experience the same thing, then that lends credence to the experience being actual.

True you may have experienced so something then can not attribute to anything they would experience in normal life. To lay the credit on a mythological concept seems to me a way of hiding the fact that you don't know or are unwilling to lay the credit on the surgeon who used great skill to heal you,
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1a/b9/04/1ab9046f92ba55e5eeaaceeb5900f0d5.jpg
or the driver who woke up just in time to avoid you, or air currents that shifted the falling rock just enough to miss you.

 

[ChristineM]

You refer to the universe as something that is of limits.
How can you know if it is so?

On the same account, I could present the question of God as a closed system.
What I'm actually trying to say is, That God, And the Universe are Both yet to be known.

Is there a god? Maybe.
Is the universe endless? Maybe.
NO ONE REALLY KNOWS.

The loop is endless...
No matter what we discover and learn, always will we still ask the question, What came first?

Although the universe as we know and understand it is potentially infinite, it it known to be around 93 billion light years across, ( measurable in several complimentary ways. Yes it has limits.

God is unknown for a reason, the non existent is unknowable. There are several evidences of this as i have discussed before on this thread. I will repeat them if you wish

 

[ChristineM]

One thing we do know is that, short of a gross violation of the law of conservation of energy, the energy of the closed system of the universe (however big one wishes to make the system of "the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated," Definition of UNIVERSE ) was a creation from outside the system.

That is not known, the laws of thermodynamics did not exist until after the big bang, they did not begin to resolve until 10e-34 of a second after the event so conservation of energy is not relevant to the beginning of the universe.