Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
I didn't say the universe didn't exist, I said a "cosmic existence" such as a god didn't. But since you've got no evidence to the contrary, you're just going to troll. Can't say I'm surprised.
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What are the best arguments in favor of theism and against atheism?
- Thread starter Lorgar-Aurelian
- Start date
I didn't say the universe didn't exist, I said a "cosmic existence" such as a god didn't. But since you've got no evidence to the contrary, you're just going to troll. Can't say I'm surprised.
Satans_Serrated_Edge
Deicidal
As nobody is born a believer, this is patently false. Aside from that, people 'find god' and 'lose their faith' in bulk every day.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Sure, definition of nothing in this context is the absolute absence of mass and energy, not just an absence of particles. Now since it is a scientific fact that physical matter exists, and the scientific Law of Conservation states that matter can not be created or destroyed, by logic it must have always existed. 21st century science is unable to remove one iota of existing material from the universe, nor can it add anything new into it, the mass of the universe forever remains constant.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
For heavens sake, the universe is cosmic existence...cosmic existence is universal existence. Let me ask you this way, do you accept that you are a creation of the universe?
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
As opposed to what? An imaginary friend? Humanity evolved within the universe, yes.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
So good, we are in agreement, humanity lives , moves, and has its being within the universe as a part of cosmic existence. The only disagreement is that you arbitrarily reject the use of the term 'Brahman', or 'God', 'Allah', 'Tao', etc., that some people use to represent 'Universal existence'. It is like as if you reject the use of the term 'air', or 'agua', 'tubig', etc., that some people use to represent 'water'.
No, I'm saying that the special type of stories we call myths sprang up for a reason.
How about the absence of dimensions? If a nothing has dimensions then it is not nothing, how could one have nothing with dimensions?
It is scientific principle now, however the laws of thermodynamics did not resolve themselves until after the bb event, therefore any talk of conservation of energy prior to 10e-24 of a second of the bb event is moot.
Ahh, got it, 'false' gods are myths without reason but your god is a myth that occurred with a reason. Ok
Do you by any chance have such a thing as evidence that there is some sort of reason behind myths?
What purpose is served by calling the universe "God"?
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Huh.....who said nothing has dimensions? What is it about my statement that nothing does not, never has, and never will exist, that you do not understand? I have answered your question why this is so, according to science and logic, in my post that you quoted.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Our ancestors coined words like God, Brahman, Tao, etc., to represent THAT absolute reality of the ONE that is all. I have not studied philology to get to the nitty griity of these terms, but I presume reverence of the universal source of what and who we are would play a part.
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
Heck if I know. We have a perfectly good word for it already, why invent more?
Does Brahman or Tao have connotations of the Universe plus consciousness or something else, something besides? Or do they literally just mean "everything that exists"?
Especially a word that has completely different baggage.
In pantheism it seems to solve the dilemmas of how a creator can exist and how anything can exist at all. Anything that can exist would exist by virtue of not requiring a cause which would make such a thing god. Saying all that exists is god is saying that all that exists is a miracle of existence including god himself.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
They mean the one that is all. A qualification here though, the 'one' itself is absolute and beyond conceptualization, otoh the conceived 'aspects' or 'all' that appear to constitute the one are purely aspects of a secondary aspect, the human mind.
If you continue to put words in my mouth, there will be no further reason to key at you.
You said absolute, absolute nothing cannot have dimensions.
What is it about my statement that you do not know such and make the claim only on emotion alone. The conditions before 10e-42 of a second after the big bang are unknown and may remain unknown for ever, stomping your foot will make no difference to your guess. What is known is that the laws you are claiming eternal did not exist before the big bang. Therefore you cannot cite those laws in any argument prior to (or immediately after) the event
Not according to science, there is nothing in science to say that our universe did not come from nothing
As for logic, it is based on what is known given present conditions and experience. Again, not relevant prior to the big bang.
That is up to you, you made a statement without any sort of evidence and apparent cannot provide any evidence. I am not putting words in your mouth, i am typing my response to your statement.