Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
It is. It still says nothing remotely like what you have described and it certainly does not make the Messiah to be G-d.
What do you understand the passage to be saying?
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It is. It still says nothing remotely like what you have described and it certainly does not make the Messiah to be G-d.
To me it appears messianic. The Messiah is going to destroy the evil kingdoms signified by the beasts.What do you understand the passage to be saying?
To me it appears messianic. The Messiah is going to destroy the evil kingdoms signified by the beasts.
I say, 'to me' as this whole set of passages is very contested. I don't want anyone to think I'm pushing some kind of normative view. I know this is Rashi's interpretation, however.
Daniel is being shown the future Messiah.What do you understand is happening in verse 13?
Daniel is being shown the future Messiah.
'...and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.'Is the Messiah going to the Ancient of Days, or coming from the Ancient of Days?
'...and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.'
This is a vision. It's representative. The various empires are represented by animals; they are not obviously actual animals. It's symbolism.Where in Jewish thought, or in Jewish teaching about the Messiah, does a Son of man ascend to heaven with the clouds?
This is a vision. It's representative. The various empires are represented by animals; they are not obviously actual animals. It's symbolism.
It's love manifesting itself. The ultimate expression of love is to die for who you love. This is why God had to die. According to 1 Peter 1:19-20 Jesus death was foreordained before the foundation of the world. So it was always part of the plan.IMO, a shepherd who can do his job safely is a better shepherd than one who has to die to do his job.
My report comes from our heavenly Father, who said at Jesus' baptism, 'Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased'. [Mark 1:11] Was God pleased with what was about to happen, or what had already happened? Jesus was about thirty at the time, so my guess is that God was reporting on his past under the law.
Because Psalms 90:2 informs us that God is 'from everlasting to everlasting' then God can Not die.It's love manifesting itself. The ultimate expression of love is to die for who you love. This is why God had to die. According to 1 Peter 1:19-20 Jesus death was foreordained before the foundation of the world. So it was always part of the plan.
Only if the death was necessary and unavoidable. Needlessly letting yourself be killed isn't an expression of love.It's love manifesting itself. The ultimate expression of love is to die for who you love.
Makes no sense at all.This is why God had to die. According to 1 Peter 1:19-20 Jesus death was foreordained before the foundation of the world. So it was always part of the plan.
Yes, context. Exactly. “One”.In different applications, yes, but not in Deut - context.
In I These 5:23 - 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I know that we, with finite minds, cannot completely understand an infinite God but it doesn't change the reality that we still have one God manifest in three distinct functions.. the Father, The Word and His Holy Spirit.
Is 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. The three are one as we are three in one (Let US make man in OUR image)
You cannot equate Jesus when He came in human form as what he was when He was The Word. there was a divine purpose when The Word humbled himself and took on humanity to save humanity.
It makes sense to me.
Think like love personified before there was anything else; ethereal and not manifest because there is no way to express yourself; therefore you can't be at rest. You are unfulfilled. So, when given the chance; as love you can't really help yourself. You become expressed in your most perfect form. Which is why God had to die for us.Only if the death was necessary and unavoidable. Needlessly letting yourself be killed isn't an expression of love.
And if being killed was necessary, then Jesus/God/whoever isn't as good a shepherd as a shepherd who can do a good job without dying.
Of course God can't die that's why it says "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared me;" (Hebrews 10:5) So, God needed a mortal body for Jesus to die as the sacrifice. That's why John the baptist says "behold the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world" when he saw Jesus.Because Psalms 90:2 informs us that God is 'from everlasting to everlasting' then God can Not die.
Nowhere do I read that God sent Himself to Earth, but that God sent His pre-human heavenly Son to Earth for us.
Who is the' first of all creation' as mentioned at Colossians 1:15__________________
I believe the "Foundation of the world (or ages)" is speaking of the 6 days of creation. This is when I believe all the ages of the world were set in order and so before this Jesus was foreordained to die and rise from the dead. This I believe is Genesis 1:3. Here we see that the light shines in the darkness. Just compare to John chapter 1. The Light is the light of life that overcomes the "shadow of death" (Isaiah 9:1-2, Matthew 4:14-16) which is the darkness over all the peoples. (Isaiah 60:2) Which is the sentence of death on us all and the light of life is the power over death. The resurrection power. And so death is swallowed up in victory. God says "let there be light" and it's called day. Just like Jesus is called the day star and the Bright and morning star. The deep represents people and nations. The light shining on the face of the deep means death is overcome and they have hope.1 Peter 1:19-20 is speaking about (Not the planet Earth) but the ' foundation of the world of 'righteous mankind' as Jesus expresses at Matthew 23:35; Luke 11:51
So, I find the foundation or founding of the world beginning with -> righteous Abel.
Remember: the first prophecy of Genesis 3:15 was expressed ' after ' the fall of Adam and Eve, so the hope starts with righteous Abel.
From reading all of your previous posts, it seems that you are certainly trying hard to promote the pagan trinity teachings, of which, I personally have never found any such confusing teaching within the Holy Scriptures..... You have now brought up here, Mark 1:11,,, so my question to you is,, If Jesus is in fact GOD, then exactly whose voice came from the heavens, stating ' This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased'? ..... With all due respect, people that insist on pushing this pagan trinity teaching, only cause people that are ignorant of the Scriptures to look at Jesus as some sort of vane schizophrenic,,,, so my next question is,, Which is wiser?? To make the clear statements of scripture conform to our imperfect human conceptions of what may be implied??? OR to believe the clear teaching of our Creator's Inspired Scripture, and accept that these perceived implications might be due to our misunderstanding of scripture or completely in error????
Yes, I'm very familiar with all this. What does it have to do with what we were talking about?Think like love personified before there was anything else; ethereal and not manifest because there is no way to express yourself; therefore you can't be at rest. You are unfulfilled. So, when given the chance; as love you can't really help yourself. You become expressed in your most perfect form. Which is why God had to die for us.
It was necessary that someone died to save Adam. Let's forget all humans for a moment; except Adam and Eve. Because (scripturally speaking) we are all extensions of them. Really, even Eve is an extension of Adam because she came from him. So we collectively are "adam" and are mortal because we ate from the tree of knowledge rather than the tree of life. You could talk about symbolism because it has symbolism. But that's not my point. My point is that Adam needs to be rescued from mortality. So that's why Jesus had to die like his creature(Adam) dies. Because that's the only way to bring in the resurrection from death. And so when Jesus rose from death; He didn't do it for Himself. He did it so that Adam could also be raised immortal also.
But none of that is really my main point here. That's just the story. The backdrop or the setting for love to be manifest within. And love is manifest in many ways in our lives; but love had one manifestation which was the greatest manifestation. And it was to be joined with it's own creation forever. The symbolism of this is marriage. (Genesis 2:24) And Adam is believed to have eaten the forbidden fruit knowing he would die; because he loved Eve and didn't want to be separated from her. So there is love again.
My point is that love being what it is; must express itself. I believe none of this can be helped or altered. It has to happen as much as anything must happen. Like a chemical reaction. So God must be expressed. God chose to express Himself in this creation. This expression is what gives God rest (like equilibrium) and is the purpose of creation. That's the marriage of masculine and feminine (creating shared love) which makes the balance necessary for rest/equilibrium. Remember God said everything was good and rested on the 7th day? So that's the whole point of creation.
So Adam was masculine and feminine at first; but then separated into Adam and Eve to create the necessary conditions for marriage(union) which would give rest. Because before this Adam probably looked through the whole garden for a suitable "helpmate". So, God's the same way with the creation. But what does Eve do? She gets them both kicked out of the garden. And so they are in trouble now because of love. Being cast out of Eden is like how we must go through trouble and work the ground free of thorns to gain true love; before we can return to the garden and rest. That's why marriage is hard. And remember what guards the way back into the garden? A cherubim with a flaming sword. Which means there is no way back but to die. This means people kill a part of themselves to make their partner happy. And often it needed to go anyway like a thorny plant that is not good in your garden. Because they're trying to regrow Eden in the wilderness. Just as God wants to do within us.
But this flaming sword is why Jesus died (with a crown of thorns btw). To make a way back into the garden for Adam. That's why creation is so messy right now and going through a lot of pain as it "dies" along with Jesus on the cross; so it can be raised to new life and immortality. (why God said "I make all things new") So love will be a reality because it's expressed and shared.
In context, this is not speaking about individuals but to the brotherhood in Thes·sa·lo·niʹca.
He was speaking about the congregation...'the spirit, the soul and the body' of that congregation.
This has nothing to do with a trinity or else Paul could not have said....."For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist." (1 Thessalonians 8:5-6 ESV) There is no mention of the holy spirit as in the majority of cases where Jesus and the Father are mentioned together. (As also in John 1:1) So how is there a trinity of co-eternal, co-equal parts of one God when the third party is MIA?
Recognizing the Father, son and holy spirit are necessary.....but combining them in one "godhead" finds no support at all the Bible. Can you provide one instance where Jesus or his Father referred to Jesus as "God the Son"?....and to "God the Holy Spirit"? Search carefully...you will not find a single one. Jesus calls his Father "God" but I cannot find one time when the Father called the son "God"...or indicated that the holy spirit was a person.
Isaiah was God's prophet speaking on behalf of his God.....Jehovah sending his prophets and his son , as well as his holy spirit are found in all of scripture.....but never was the holy spirit spoken of as a separate part of God. The holy spirit emanates from God....it is the application of his power...the means by which his will is accomplished. It is applied in due measure, not too little...not too much, as was the case with Moses having difficulty managing the nation of Israel. God told him to select 70 qualified men to act as his assistants....God took "some of the spirit" that was on Moses and divided it up between the 70.
Numbers 11:24-25....
"So Moses went out and told the people the words of the Lord. And he gathered seventy men of the elders of the people and placed them around the tent. 25 Then the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke to him, and took some of the Spirit that was on him and put it on the seventy elders. And as soon as the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied".
If God could take "some of the spirit" that was with Moses and give it to 70 others, how can the holy spirit possibly be one entity? If it is the application of God's power, then it makes sense.
e actually never stopped being "the Word". Even on earth he spoke in the name of his God and Father. The Logos was always God's spokesman...the one who spoke God's words to his people. He was a glorious spirit creature, his Father's firstborn, who humbled himself to take on human form and give his life for us. He did not have to be God in order to cancel Adam's debt.....he just had to offer an equivalent "life for a life" to redeem the now sinful human race.
The very thought of the Creator of the universe coming to earth as a mere mortal is pretty ridiculous to anyone who knows the Bible. God has servants who are in constant attendance upon him.....Jesus too is referred to as God's servant. (Acts 3:13) How can God be his own servant?
guess that is one important area where JW's completely divide off from the rest of Christendom....it never made sense to me growing up in church, and my sense of logic was always fighting with this, as it made no sense. Then as I studied the Bible, it was revealed to be a complete blasphemy....substituting another god in place of the true God. (John 17:3; Exodus 20:3) I began to understand the influence of the "weeds" of Jesus' parable to completely corrupt Jesus' teachings, as it was foretold.