Then we agree
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The LORD is my shepherd
- Thread starter Redemptionsong
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Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Hi Deeje,
I was thinking about the implications of your belief, and the following passage came to mind; 'Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.'
In the light of this verse, do you believe that Jesus Christ is worthy of worship now?
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I’m sorry, Ken....I edited my post, and reposted, to be clearer. And I removed my snide comment, I apologize.
Plus, Deut. 6:4 specifically states God’s Divine Name, Yahweh / Jehovah. It doesn’t just say Elohim.
Jehovah, according to Trinitarian doctrine, is ‘separate’ from Jesus.
So understanding Elohim as meaning superlative, fits this context.
Yes, context. Exactly. “One”. (Not three.)
Plus, Deut. 6:4 specifically states God’s Divine Name, Yahweh / Jehovah. It doesn’t just say Elohim.
Jehovah, according to Trinitarian doctrine, is ‘separate’ from Jesus.
So understanding Elohim as meaning superlative, fits this context.
Ken, Jesus is all these things, because God made him such!
Did Jesus not say, “all authority has been given me”? Matthew 28:18.
Why?
If he were God, nothing would need to be given to him.
The Anointed
Well-Known Member
No! The words; "All authority has been given me," were the words of our Lord God and savior, who said in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.
Well... we will have to agree to disagree..
In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word WAS God
The Anointed
Well-Known Member
"All authority has been given me," were the words of our Lord God and savior, who said in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.
It was he, 'The Son of Man' the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who filled the man Jesus with his spirit as the heavenly voice was heard to say, "You are my Son (My chosen heir and successor) this day I have begotten thee " Who raised his earthly temple from death and has placed him in his throne until he has brought every knee to bow before his heir, then he shall reclaim his throne as the MOST HIGH in the creation. The supreme personality of Godhead to develop within the Logos, which is all that exists, the GREAT THOUGHT, which is the collective consciousness of all that it has become.
Misty Woods
A Child of Our Almighty Creator Jehovah
From your first question : “I believe God reveals Himself to mankind. How does the LORD do this if not through his Word, his Son? [Rev. 19:13]”
2 Tim 3:16 “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.” (All Scripture would be both OT and NT, and the OT had already been written down Before Jesus earthly birth.)
2 Peter 1: 21 For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were moved by holy spirit. ( Therefore,,The Holy Spirit, sent by GOD, moved men to speek and write Bible Prophecy)
John 14: 26 “But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you. ( Jesus here states that the Father will send the Holy Spirit in Jesus name to teach and bring back to the disciples minds all that Jesus had told them……. Jesus did not say that he, himself would send the Holy Spirit)------------So the answer to your question, according to Scripture, is God’s Holy Spirt
Regarding your second question: No where have I found within the Holy Scriptures, ‘that the Spirit of God came to dwell in the body of Jesus.’
Luke 3:22 and the holy spirit in bodily form like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.”
John 1:32 John also bore witness, saying: “I viewed the spirit coming down as a dove out of heaven, and it remained upon him. 33 Even I did not know him, but the very One who sent me to baptize in water said to me: ‘Whoever it is upon whom you see the spirit coming down and remaining, this is the one who baptizes in holy spirit.’ 34 And I have seen it, and I have given witness that this one is the Son of God.”
Matt 3:16 After being baptized, Jesus immediately came up from the water; and look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw God’s spirit descending like a dove and coming upon him.https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/bc/r1/lp-e/1001070144/93
Luke 4:18 Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free,
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of Jehovah will settle upon him, The spirit of wisdom and of understanding, The spirit of counsel and of mightiness, The spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah.
The word upon has a largely different meaning than the words, into, or inside of, so possibly this will assist you in understanding the ‘meaning that God intended for His own words’ .
Koine Greek did not have indefinite articles in their language — “a” and “an” didn’t exist in their parts of speech — so they need to be added to languages that do use them.
And actually, it’s not “...and the word was the god”; or even “....and the word was god”. It’s “...and god was the word.”
Does that matter? You bet!.....
According to highly respected scholar and Catholic priest John L. McKenzie (a Trinitarian), wrote regarding John 1:1 in his 'Dictionary of the Bible'...."Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated ‘the word was with the God [= the Father], and the word was a divine being.’”—(Brackets are his. Italics & bold type are mine. Published with nihil obstat and imprimatur.) (1965, NY), p. 317.
He is not alone....
In his article “Qualitative Anarthrous Predicate Nouns: Mark 15:39 andJohn 1:1,” Philip B. Harner said that such clauses as the one in John 1:1, “with an anarthrous predicate preceding the verb, are primarily qualitative in meaning. They indicate that the logos has the nature of theos.” He suggests: “Perhaps the clause could be translated, ‘the Word had the same nature as God.’” (Journal of Biblical Literature, 1973, pp. 85, 87) Thus, in this text, the fact that the word the·osʹin its second occurrence is without the definite article (ho) and is placed before the verb in the sentence in Greek is significant. Interestingly, translators that insist on rendering John 1:1, “The Word was God,” do not hesitate to use the indefinite article (a, an) in their rendering of other passages where a singular anarthrous predicate noun occurs before the verb. Thus at John 6:70, The Jerusalem Bible and King James both refer to Judas Iscariot as “a devil,” and at John 9:17, they describe Jesus as “a prophet.”
Because of this Greek semantics issue, we have examples of other versions’ translations....
▪ 1808: "and the Word was a god" – Thomas Belsham The New Testament, in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text, London.
▪ 1822: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament in Greek and English (A. Kneeland, 1822.)
▪ 1829: "and the Word was a god" – The Monotessaron; or, The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists (J. S. Thompson, 1829)
▪ 1863: "and the Word was a god" – A Literal Translation of the New Testament (Herman Heinfetter [Pseudonym of Frederick Parker], 1863)
▪ 1864: "the LOGOS was God, This was in the Beginning with God" – A New Emphatic Version (right hand column)
▪ 1864: "and a god was the Word" – The Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London (left hand column interlinear reading)
▪ 1867: "In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God" – The Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible
▪ 1879: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (J. Becker, 1979)
▪ 1885: "and the Word was a god" – Concise Commentary on The Holy Bible (R. Young, 1885)
▪ 1911: "and the Word was a god" – The Coptic Version of the N.T. (G. W. Horner, 1911)
▪ 1935: "and the Word was divine" – The Bible: An American Translation, by John M. P. Smith and Edgar J. Goodspeed, Chicago
▪ 1955: "so the Word was divine" – The Authentic New Testament, by Hugh J. Schonfield, Aberdeen.
▪ 1956: "In the beginning the Word was existing. And the Word was in fellowship with God the Father. And the Word was as to His essence absolute deity" – The Wuest Expanded Translation[15]
▪ 1958: "and the Word was a god" – The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Anointed (J. L. Tomanec, 1958)
▪ 1966, 2001: "...and he was the same as God" – The Good News Bible
▪ 1970, 1989: "...and what God was, the Word was" – The Revised English Bible
▪ 1975 "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word" – Das Evangelium nach Johnnes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany
▪ 1975: "and the Word was a god" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes (S. Schulz, 1975);
▪ 1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos" – Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin
Oh but he is......the whole chapter is addressed to the bothers as a body or congregation. There is no reference to a trinity in his words or else Paul lied in 1 Corinthians 8:5-6.
Yes you can, because they are never confused in the scriptures at all. Jesus himself always separates them. Never is he ever placed on equal footing with his God and Father, who is still his God even in heaven....this is well after his resurrection and return to heaven.....so can you explain that? (Revelation 3:12)
If Jesus is God how do you explain John 1:18, which is just a few verses after John 1:1....??
What error? Was Jesus in heaven "with" God before the Father "sent" him on his rescue mission? Yes he was.
Did that require a transformation from spirit being to human being? Yes it did.
Did God need to become a human to redeem the human race? No he did not. So there was never a necessity for God to become a human in the first place. Jesus is called "the last Adam" because his life had to match the first Adam's exactly. Was Adam part God or was he 100% mortal human? How can an immortal God become 100% human? Immortals cannot die.
You do understand that they wanted to bring a charge of blasphemy against him so that they had grounds to kill him....? They were not averse to supplying false witnesses to get their way either....
In the next two verses it says....
"Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel."
Does this sound like parts of the same "God"?
How then does Jesus say in John 17:3...
"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."
Why does Jesus separate himself from the Father, if they are one and the same God? And why is knowing the holy spirit not necessary for eternal life?
Please do not ignore these questions because they are important....we have to "KNOW" God and his Christ if we want everlasting life.....the trinity masks who God is and places the son in a position that he never sought. This, I believe, is so important.
God's spirit is his.....it is the means by which his will is carried out. It was the power used in creation. It is given in due measure, as it was with Jesus at his baptism. It empowered Jesus and later his disciples to perform supernatural fetes. Pre -Christian servants of God were partakers of his spirit also. (Remember the account of Moses that was quoted)
Matthew 12:31-32...
"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."
No equality there at all. You can blaspheme the son and still be forgiven....but to blaspheme the very power of God when one has witnessed it, is to insult him to his core. This earned the Pharisees of Jesus' day a place in "gehenna"....they ascribed Jesus' miracles (a product of the holy spirit) to the devil. (Matthew 12:24-29)
Easy......the Bible never amalgamated them in the first place.....the Catholic church introduced the trinity into its doctrines over 300 years after Jesus died. He never taught it....the Jews never believed in it. Monotheism demand that there is only one God....not a freak with three heads who can be in three places at once talking to each other....
How can there be three 'gods' and not be polytheism? On the contrary, it is a small box indeed if you cannot accommodate God on his own terms.
He is Almighty.....no Being is more powerful....
He is Omniscient.....all knowing means that nothing escapes his notice.
He is never said to be 'Omnipresent'.....he does not need to be, as he has servants in all the places they need to be, reporting back to him. How do you think satan got to be the Covering Cherub in the garden of Eden?
He is "the hearer of prayer" (Psalm 65:2)....the only one to whom our prayers are to be addressed and God gives us the delivery system....they must be offered to the Father "in Jesus' name".
His spirit gives comfort by calling to mind the scriptures to soothe us in times of trouble.
How can he possibly be more than one entity and still be true to his own self?
An angel did take on the sins of the world because all that angel needed to be was 100% human, but not a sinful son of Adam. He came from heaven to be born as a human in David's family line...but he could not have a human father and still be sinless. He was Jewish, born of a Jewish mother, and sinless, born of God by means of his spirit.
Jesus' "ransom" paid a price for Adam's children to free them from the debt that he left for them. All you need is a lesson in Israels' law of redemption.
To redeem a man from a debt that he could not pay, someone had to volunteer to pay the debt for him. The full amount was required. Jesus paid the full amount by becoming the equivalent of Adam (a sinless mortal human) and offering his life in exchange for ours....'a perfect life for a perfect life'.
If God had offered his life....
1) The debt would have been overpaid to a ridiculous degree.....like 10 quadrillion dollars to repay a 100 dollar debt.
2) It would have meant that an Immortal God had to be killed by mortal humans....impossible.
Do you believe that Jesus was 100% God and 100% human at the same time? Was Adam?
I guess, from our perspective the early church changed the very nature of God by introducing foreign religious concepts and passing them off as 'Christian'. No one was permitted to read the Bible for themselves for many centuries, so because no one had the knowledge to correct them, what they taught became gospel truth. But the trinity to us is a blasphemous satanic lie, designed to separate people from the true God. I am amazed at how many people have been misled by it. Something that didn't exist for 300 years after Christ's death, became the very foundation of Christendom"s beliefs.Yet "many" believe it....but Jesus said that "few" are on the road to life. (Matthew 7:13-14) How is that possible? We have to discern the 'wheat' from the 'weeds'.
We each must answer to the same judge.....and we have to satisfy our own requirements for truth and hope that we have not been taken down the wrong path, by the wrong god.
(1 John 5:19)Peace to you Ken.
@KenS .....
Deeje said something pretty important here:
If I may ask (and you don’t have to answer, I don’t want to put you on the spot), how do you think one would differentiate between them?
Jesus said there was a way....
Later, my cousin.
Deeje said something pretty important here:
If I may ask (and you don’t have to answer, I don’t want to put you on the spot), how do you think one would differentiate between them?
Jesus said there was a way....
Later, my cousin.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
I totally accept that the Spirit of the Lord was upon Jesus. It was careless of me to give the impression that the Spirit could not depart. In fact, having given this some thought, it was imperative that the Spirit should be 'upon' Jesus at this point in his ministry. When crucified, and bearing the sins of mankind, the Spirit departed from Jesus. That's why he cried, My God , my God, why has thou forsaken me?
I accept all the passages of scripture that you quote, but the conclusions you reach do not tell the whole truth.
In John 15:26,27 it says, 'But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceeded from the Father, he shall testify of me:
And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.'
The Father is Holy Spirit, the Word (Christ) is Holy Spirit, and the Comforter is Holy Spirit. If I repent and believe on Jesus Christ as the Son of God I receive the Holy Spirit, and I receive it from Jesus Christ. Where does Jesus Christ get the Spirit from? From the Father. As it says in Ephesians 4:6, 'One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.'
If a person bypasses Christ in seeking God, they cannot be called a Christian. Christ clearly stated, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me' [John 14:6]. Thomas saw the risen Jesus Christ and exclaimed, 'My Lord and my God' [John 20:28].
Isaiah 43:11. says 'I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour'. Hosea 13:4 confirms this important truth in the words, 'Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no God but me: for there is no saviour beside me'. In Luke 2:11 we learn from the mouth of the angel of the Lord these good tidings; 'For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord'.
If you tell me that Jesus Christ was a representative of God, my retort will be that he is not, therefore, God; and according to the prophet Isaiah, not a saviour.
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The Anointed
Well-Known Member
In Post #109; Misty woods wrote; 2 Tim 3:16 “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.” (All Scripture would be both OT and NT, and the OT had already been written down Before Jesus earthly birth.)
Only twice in your OT is the father of Shelah revealed. In Genesis 11: 12; It is said that when Arpachshad was 35 years old he had a son ‘Shelah.’
Then in 1 Chronicles 1: 18; where it is said; “Arpachshad is the father of Shelah.”
Whereas Luke states that Arpachshad was the father of Cainam/Kainam, who was the father of Shelah. See Luke 3: 35-36. If Luke did not get this information from the Hebrew and Roman bibles, from which scriptures did this information come?
Jubilees [Chapter 8] 1 In the twenty-ninth jubilee, in the first week, in the beginning thereof Arpachshad took to himself a wife and her name was Rasu’eja, the daughter of Susan, the daughter of Elam, and she 2 bare him a son in the third year in this week, and he called his name Kainam. And the son grew, and his father taught him writing, and he went to seek for himself a place where he might seize for 3 himself a city. And he found a writing which former (generations) had carved on the rock, and he read what was thereon, and he transcribed it and sinned owing to it; for it contained the teaching of the Watchers in accordance with which they used to observe the omens of the sun and moon and 4 stars in all the signs of heaven. And he wrote it down and said nothing regarding it; for he was 5 afraid to speak to Noah about it lest he should be angry with him on account of it. And in the thirtieth jubilee, in the second week, in the first year thereof, he took to himself a wife, and her name was Melka, the daughter of Madai, the son of Japheth, and in the fourth year he begat a son, and 6 called his name Shelah; for he said: ’Truly I have been sent.’
Misty Woods wrote; No where have I found within the Holy Scriptures, ‘that the Spirit of God came to dwell in the body of Jesus.’
Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS (My Spirit) in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.
In, not on, Jesus was the earthly temple of our Lord God and savior, who said through his obedient servant Jesus. "Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up."
Christ is the English term for the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed one" It is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), usually transliterated into English as Messiah or Mashiach. The Hebrew word translated "anointed" is the verb form of the noun "Messiah."
Good News Bible Catholic Study Edition, Hebrews 10: 5; For this reason, when Christ was about to come into the world, he said to God, “You do not want sacrifices and offerings, but a body you have prepared for me.” That body was the man Jesus. Genesis 5: 23; Enoch was 365 and had spent his life in fellowship with God when he disappeared because God had Taken him.
Hebrews 11: 5; "By faith Enoch was Translated (To change from one form to another) so that he should not experience death; and he was not found, because God had Translated him.
How did the author of the book of Hebrews know that Enoch had been translated in order that he should never experience death? From which scriptures did he receive this information? Not from your OT that's for sure.
Enoch, the most important man in the OT and the NT, and yet he has been rejected by both the Jewish church and the Roman church of Emperor Constantine.
"The Book of the Secrets of Enoch" 22: 8; "And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord with his lips said to me: "Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, arise and stand before my face into eternity."
And the archistratiege Michael lifted me up, and led me before the Lord"s face.
[Archistratege. Or, "the commander of the armies of the nations, named Michael."]
And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory." [Enoch, is the one who was anointed as the successor to the throne of the MOST HIGH in the creation: CHRIST=The anointed one]
And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun’s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.
The body that the Most High in the creation had prepared for his chosen heir and successor (His Son) the anointed one, was the man Jesus, upon who, the spirit of our Lord and savior descended in the form of a dove.
Luke 3:22 and the holy spirit in bodily form like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.
Luke 3: 22; was changed by the authorities of the Roman church of Emperor Constantine, who want you to believe that Jesus was born physically as the son of God, rather than the fact that he was born ‘Son of God’ not by blood, nor by the will of the flesh, nor by the will of man, but by the spirit of our Lord that descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say; “You are my son, this day I have begotten thee, or as the author of the book of Hebrews 5: 5; “You are my son TODAY I have become your Father.”
In Luke 3: 22; (In place of “Thou art my beloved son in who I am well pleased.”) The following authorities of the second, third, and fourth centuries read, “This day I have begotten thee,” vouched for by Codex D, and the most ancient copies of the old latin (a, b. c. ff.I), by Justin Martyr (AD 140), Clemens Alex, (AD. 190), Methodius (AD. 290), among the Greeks. And among the Latins, Lactaitius (AD 300), Hilary (AD) Juvencus (AD. 330), Faustus (AD. 400) and Augustine. All these oldest manuscripts were changed completely. They now read, “This is my son in whom I am well pleased.” Whereas the original variant was, “Thou art my Son. This day I have begotten thee.”
Luke 3:23; (KJV) And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,. The (AS WAS SUPPOSED) in brackets, was a later interpolation by those who believed the false teaching of the so-called virgin birth.
In the different translations of the KJV into Arabic, Afrikaan, Zulu, etc and even some of the more modern English translations, such as the Good News Bible, the words (As was supposed) have been retained, but the brackets are removed, thus by, making those words appear to be the declaration of Luke, while the serious biblical students know that they were not written by Luke, but were a later interpolation and a corruption of the Holy Scriptures, by those Christians, who refuse to accept that Jesus was not a God who became a man, but a man, born of human parents, who was later CHOSEN by the Lord our saviour ‘The Son of Man,’ as his heir and successor.
If Jesus was not born of the flesh as all human beings are, but was born of a virgin without male semen having been introduced into her uterus, then this would have been the greatest of all miracles, and would have been shouted from the roof tops by all four gospel writers and yet we see that Mark, who is believed to have been the son of Peter, and John the beloved disciple, ignore the physical birth of Jesus as being totally irrelevant to the story of salvation and begin their account of He who was sent in the name of the Lord, with the Baptism of the man Jesus, when he was born of the spirit that descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say, “You are my beloved in whom I am well pleased, Today I have begotten thee.”
Hebrew 5: 7-10; “In his life on earth, Jesus made his prayers and requests with loud cries and tears to God who could save him from death. Because he was humble and devoted, God heard him. But even though he was ‘A’ son of God, [Not God’s son or THE Son of God, but ‘A’ son of God, check it out in the appendix of Strong’s Concordance, or The King James translation, the Amplified translation, or The Revised Standard translation. All Israelites are sons of God according to God’s word, see Psalms 82: 6; ‘You are gods,’ I said; ‘all of you are sons of the Most High.’) he learned through suffering to be obedient, when he was made perfect he became the only source through whom salvation could be gained from our Lord God and saviour, who rose Jesus from death and will raise all they, who are united to him also.
After he was made perfect in his obedience to His indwelling ancestral father, [Enoch] Our Lord God and saviour made him high priest in the order of Melchizedek, not that Jesus took upon himself the honour of being high priest, instead, the Lord made him high priest with these words, See Hebrews 5: 5. You are my son TODAY I have become your Father.”
Only twice in your OT is the father of Shelah revealed. In Genesis 11: 12; It is said that when Arpachshad was 35 years old he had a son ‘Shelah.’
Then in 1 Chronicles 1: 18; where it is said; “Arpachshad is the father of Shelah.”
Whereas Luke states that Arpachshad was the father of Cainam/Kainam, who was the father of Shelah. See Luke 3: 35-36. If Luke did not get this information from the Hebrew and Roman bibles, from which scriptures did this information come?
Jubilees [Chapter 8] 1 In the twenty-ninth jubilee, in the first week, in the beginning thereof Arpachshad took to himself a wife and her name was Rasu’eja, the daughter of Susan, the daughter of Elam, and she 2 bare him a son in the third year in this week, and he called his name Kainam. And the son grew, and his father taught him writing, and he went to seek for himself a place where he might seize for 3 himself a city. And he found a writing which former (generations) had carved on the rock, and he read what was thereon, and he transcribed it and sinned owing to it; for it contained the teaching of the Watchers in accordance with which they used to observe the omens of the sun and moon and 4 stars in all the signs of heaven. And he wrote it down and said nothing regarding it; for he was 5 afraid to speak to Noah about it lest he should be angry with him on account of it. And in the thirtieth jubilee, in the second week, in the first year thereof, he took to himself a wife, and her name was Melka, the daughter of Madai, the son of Japheth, and in the fourth year he begat a son, and 6 called his name Shelah; for he said: ’Truly I have been sent.’
Misty Woods wrote; No where have I found within the Holy Scriptures, ‘that the Spirit of God came to dwell in the body of Jesus.’
Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS (My Spirit) in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.
In, not on, Jesus was the earthly temple of our Lord God and savior, who said through his obedient servant Jesus. "Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up."
Christ is the English term for the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed one" It is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), usually transliterated into English as Messiah or Mashiach. The Hebrew word translated "anointed" is the verb form of the noun "Messiah."
Good News Bible Catholic Study Edition, Hebrews 10: 5; For this reason, when Christ was about to come into the world, he said to God, “You do not want sacrifices and offerings, but a body you have prepared for me.” That body was the man Jesus. Genesis 5: 23; Enoch was 365 and had spent his life in fellowship with God when he disappeared because God had Taken him.
Hebrews 11: 5; "By faith Enoch was Translated (To change from one form to another) so that he should not experience death; and he was not found, because God had Translated him.
How did the author of the book of Hebrews know that Enoch had been translated in order that he should never experience death? From which scriptures did he receive this information? Not from your OT that's for sure.
Enoch, the most important man in the OT and the NT, and yet he has been rejected by both the Jewish church and the Roman church of Emperor Constantine.
"The Book of the Secrets of Enoch" 22: 8; "And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord with his lips said to me: "Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, arise and stand before my face into eternity."
And the archistratiege Michael lifted me up, and led me before the Lord"s face.
[Archistratege. Or, "the commander of the armies of the nations, named Michael."]
And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory." [Enoch, is the one who was anointed as the successor to the throne of the MOST HIGH in the creation: CHRIST=The anointed one]
And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun’s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.
The body that the Most High in the creation had prepared for his chosen heir and successor (His Son) the anointed one, was the man Jesus, upon who, the spirit of our Lord and savior descended in the form of a dove.
Luke 3:22 and the holy spirit in bodily form like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.
Luke 3: 22; was changed by the authorities of the Roman church of Emperor Constantine, who want you to believe that Jesus was born physically as the son of God, rather than the fact that he was born ‘Son of God’ not by blood, nor by the will of the flesh, nor by the will of man, but by the spirit of our Lord that descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say; “You are my son, this day I have begotten thee, or as the author of the book of Hebrews 5: 5; “You are my son TODAY I have become your Father.”
In Luke 3: 22; (In place of “Thou art my beloved son in who I am well pleased.”) The following authorities of the second, third, and fourth centuries read, “This day I have begotten thee,” vouched for by Codex D, and the most ancient copies of the old latin (a, b. c. ff.I), by Justin Martyr (AD 140), Clemens Alex, (AD. 190), Methodius (AD. 290), among the Greeks. And among the Latins, Lactaitius (AD 300), Hilary (AD) Juvencus (AD. 330), Faustus (AD. 400) and Augustine. All these oldest manuscripts were changed completely. They now read, “This is my son in whom I am well pleased.” Whereas the original variant was, “Thou art my Son. This day I have begotten thee.”
Luke 3:23; (KJV) And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,. The (AS WAS SUPPOSED) in brackets, was a later interpolation by those who believed the false teaching of the so-called virgin birth.
In the different translations of the KJV into Arabic, Afrikaan, Zulu, etc and even some of the more modern English translations, such as the Good News Bible, the words (As was supposed) have been retained, but the brackets are removed, thus by, making those words appear to be the declaration of Luke, while the serious biblical students know that they were not written by Luke, but were a later interpolation and a corruption of the Holy Scriptures, by those Christians, who refuse to accept that Jesus was not a God who became a man, but a man, born of human parents, who was later CHOSEN by the Lord our saviour ‘The Son of Man,’ as his heir and successor.
If Jesus was not born of the flesh as all human beings are, but was born of a virgin without male semen having been introduced into her uterus, then this would have been the greatest of all miracles, and would have been shouted from the roof tops by all four gospel writers and yet we see that Mark, who is believed to have been the son of Peter, and John the beloved disciple, ignore the physical birth of Jesus as being totally irrelevant to the story of salvation and begin their account of He who was sent in the name of the Lord, with the Baptism of the man Jesus, when he was born of the spirit that descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the heavenly voice was heard to say, “You are my beloved in whom I am well pleased, Today I have begotten thee.”
Hebrew 5: 7-10; “In his life on earth, Jesus made his prayers and requests with loud cries and tears to God who could save him from death. Because he was humble and devoted, God heard him. But even though he was ‘A’ son of God, [Not God’s son or THE Son of God, but ‘A’ son of God, check it out in the appendix of Strong’s Concordance, or The King James translation, the Amplified translation, or The Revised Standard translation. All Israelites are sons of God according to God’s word, see Psalms 82: 6; ‘You are gods,’ I said; ‘all of you are sons of the Most High.’) he learned through suffering to be obedient, when he was made perfect he became the only source through whom salvation could be gained from our Lord God and saviour, who rose Jesus from death and will raise all they, who are united to him also.
After he was made perfect in his obedience to His indwelling ancestral father, [Enoch] Our Lord God and saviour made him high priest in the order of Melchizedek, not that Jesus took upon himself the honour of being high priest, instead, the Lord made him high priest with these words, See Hebrews 5: 5. You are my son TODAY I have become your Father.”
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The Anointed
Well-Known Member
Continued from post #114.
Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS (My Spirit) in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.
Whose words were these in reference to the body of Jesus which had been filled by the spirit=information=words of the Lord which had descended upon him in the form of a dove? “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up?”
Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.
Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.
1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.
Acts 3:13; The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our ancestors has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.
Act 17: 31; For he (The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a 'MAN' he has 'CHOSEN'. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that 'MAN' from death.
2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence. _________________________It was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who said through his obedient servant Jesus; “Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up.”
Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS (My Spirit) in his mouth, and he and he shall speak to them all that I command, and whosoever will not heed MY WORDS, which he shall speak in MY NAME, I will punish, etc.
Whose words were these in reference to the body of Jesus which had been filled by the spirit=information=words of the Lord which had descended upon him in the form of a dove? “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up?”
Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.
Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.
1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.
Acts 3:13; The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our ancestors has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.
Act 17: 31; For he (The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a 'MAN' he has 'CHOSEN'. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that 'MAN' from death.
2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence. _________________________It was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who said through his obedient servant Jesus; “Destroy this Temple and in three days I will raise it up.”
True Hickey Cowboy, but for every interpretation that you give there are three (Greek Scholars) who would disagree. And the very position of "a god" then denotes polygons which I am definitely not in agreement with. All other "gods" are false gods including the god of this world Satan:
John 1:1, "The word was a god" | CARM.org
I'm not quite sure what you are looking for.
1 John 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
I recognize that.
1 John 4:7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
I do that too.
Matthew 7:17
Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad treebears bad fruit.
Not to promote myself, because I can only glory in the Lord, but there is good fruit in my life.
i could go on.
Obviously the opposite would give the opposite sign. Is that what you are asking?
Yes you can, because they are never confused in the scriptures at all. Jesus himself always separates them. Never is he ever placed on equal footing with his God and Father, who is still his God even in heaven....this is well after his resurrection and return to heaven.....so can you explain that? (Revelation 3:12)
Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Revelation 22:J
12 “Look, I am coming soon My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
Revelation 1:11
Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, andunto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
quite clear
John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
quite clear
Yes he did
You could say the elevated the Holy Spirit above the Father and the Word.
Easy......the Bible never amalgamated them in the first place.....the Catholic church introduced the trinity into its doctrines over 300 years after Jesus died. He never taught it....the Jews never believed in it. Monotheism demand that there is only one God....not a freak with three heads who can be in three places at once talking to each other....
The word is Godhead, and not trinity. "a god" is polytheism.
Nope.
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Notice the Jesus is the expressed image of God. Notice that all the angels worship him and you only worship God. Notice that "to which of the angels" - answer none.
Deeje, I respect you very much. I know you love God. I know your life is dedicated to Him. I know that Jesus is your Lord.
I had already processed this through study and I simply come to a different conclusion.
Shalom to you, my friend.
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Misty Woods
A Child of Our Almighty Creator Jehovah
Jehovah is identified as the principal Savior, the only Source of deliverance. (Isa 43:11; 45:21) He was the Savior and Deliverer of Israel, time and again. (Ps 106:8, 10, 21; Isa 43:3; 45:15; Jer 14:8) He saved not only the nation but also individuals who served him. (2Sa 22:1-3)
Often his salvation was through men raised up by him as saviors: Ne 9:27 “ For this you gave them into the hand of their adversaries, who kept causing them distress. But they would cry out to you in the time of their distress, and you would hear from the heavens; and because of your great mercy, you would give them saviors to rescue them out of the hand of their adversaries.”…….. During the period of the Judges, these special saviors were divinely selected and empowered to deliver Israel from foreign oppression. (Jg 2:16; 3:9, 15) While the judge lived, he served to keep Israel in the right way, and this brought them relief from their enemies. (Jg 2:18) When Jesus was on earth, Jehovah was his Savior, supporting and strengthening him to maintain integrity through his strenuous trials.— Heb 5:7 “During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear.” ,,, Who do you believe Jesus was praying to with strong outcries and tears??? And who exactly do you believe heard him favorably??? If Jesus is in fact GOD, then this scripture along with many others, does cause Jesus to sound like a vane schizophrenic, and it’s truly no wonder why so very many people have so very little faith. Ps 28:8. “Jehovah is a strength for his people;He is a stronghold, bringing grand salvation to his anointed one.” How does one bring something to oneself, that one already has???
Along with his role as Savior, Jehovah is also the “Repurchaser.” (Isa 49:26; 60:16) In the past he redeemed his people Israel from captivity. In delivering Christians from sin’s bondage, he does the repurchasing through his Son Jesus Christ (1Jo 4:14), Jehovah’s provision for salvation, who is therefore exalted as “Chief Agent and Savior.” (Ac 5:31) Accordingly, Jesus Christ can rightly be called “our Savior,” even though he performs the salvation as the agent of Jehovah. (Tit 1:4; 2Pe 1:11) The name Jesus, given to God’s Son by angelic direction, means “Jehovah Is Salvation,” for, said the angel, “he will save his people from their sins.” (Mt 1:21; Lu 1:31) This name points out that Jehovah is the Source of salvation, accomplished through Jesus. For this reason we find the Father and the Son spoken of together in connection with salvation.—Tit 2:11-13 “For the undeserved kindness of God has been manifested, bringing salvation to all sorts of people. 12 It trains us to reject ungodliness and worldly desires and to live with soundness of mind and righteousness and godly devotion amid this present system of things, 13 while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of our Savior, Jesus Christ, This does not say; while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God our Savior Jesus Christ, rather it states the ‘the great God AND our Savior Jesus Christ……. Titus 3:4-6 “ However, when the kindness of our Savior, God, and his love for mankind were manifested 5 (not because of any righteous works we had done, but because of his own mercy), he saved us by means of the bath that brought us to life and by making us new by holy spirit. 6 He poured this spirit out richly on us through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Salvation is provided by Jehovah through Jesus Christ for “all sorts of men.” (1Ti 4:10) He saves them from sin and death (Ro 8:2), from Babylon the Great (Re 18:2, 4), from this world under Satan’s control (Joh 17:16; Col 1:13), and from destruction and everlasting death (Re 7:14-17; 21:3, 4). “A great crowd” is shown at Revelation 7:9, 10attributing salvation to God and to the Lamb.
The ransom sacrifice is the basis for salvation, and as King and everlasting High Priest, Christ Jesus has the authority and power “to save completely those who are approaching God through him.” (Heb 7:23-25; Re 19:16) He is “a savior of this body,” the congregation of his anointed followers, and also of all who exercise faith in him.—Eph 5:23; 1Jo 4:14; Joh 3:16, 17…….. Our Christ Jesus has certainly more than earned his place as King and everlasting High Priest from Our Father, Our Creator, The Almighty GOD Jehovah. Throughout the entire Holy Scriptures, there is absolutely no mention of this pagan belief ‘Trinity Doctrine’ We are however warned repeatedly throughout the Scriptures regarding ‘unbelievers’, which are in fact ‘pagans’………… So again I ask which is wiser?? To make the clear statements of scripture conform to our imperfect human conceptions of what may be implied??? OR To believe the clear teaching of our Creator’s Inspired Scripture, and accept that these perceived implications might be due to our misunderstanding of scripture or completely in error??? Each of us will render an account for ourselves to God. Rom 14:12 , and each of us must carry our own load Gal 6:5
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Where does it say in scripture that Jehovah is 'the principal savior'? Certainly, Isaiah 43:11 says nothing of the sort. It says, 'I, even I, am the LORD (YHWH); and beside me there is no saviour.'
There is no saviour beside God. Yet, you say that Jesus Christ is your saviour. How can this be?
Now look carefully at the words you use to explain this difficulty. You say, 'Accordingly, Jesus Christ can rightly be called "our savior", even though he performs the salvation as the agent of Jehovah'.
'AGENT OF JEHOVAH'? What's that all about?!
I'm clear in my own mind that the Spirit upon Jesus in the synagogue in Nazareth [Luke 4:18] was the Spirit of the Lord without 'measure' [John 3:34]. How can Jesus have had the Spirit without measure and not have been acting with the full authority of his Father? This was, indeed, the presence of God in a temple of God's own making.
When Jesus was resurrected, Thomas said to him, 'My Lord and my God'. Was this a mistake?
How can you honour the Father as your LORD, if you don't honour Jesus as your Lord? How can you honour Jesus Christ as your Lord unless God be in him?
John 5:20-23. 'For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.'