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Featured Taliban

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by firedragon, Aug 19, 2021.

  1. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    Well you and I would 100% agree on that, but we must consider that they see they do, no matter how distorted that view is.

    Regards Tony
     
  2. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    This sentiment has been hit hard since I think the mid 90's. Even by some of the most fanatical Muslim groups.
     
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  3. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    No they dont. Unless of course you can show some kind of Taliban document that quotes Quranic verses I will be interested in looking at it.
     
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  4. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    One of the original reasons for the establishment of the Taliban was around issues of law and order. For some people, establishment of law and order equates to 'peace'.
    It comes at the cost of freedom, in this case, and with genuinely harsh consequences for any who won't conform. Still, for some people the establishment of clear guidelines based on religious and tribal beliefs is justifiable, and the harshness of those laws shouldn't be judged through outsiders moral considerations. I'm not of that opinion, but I can see that some would view it that way.
     
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  5. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
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    I do get this, it just seem a very odd use of the word given what's happening right now, I guess. I suppose one could call North Korea 'peaceful', but.... :sweatsmile:
     
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  6. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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  7. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Just on this, worth noting it's not just the US.
    Australia has done a horrendous job assisting Afghan nationals who helped our armed forces (interpreters, etc).
    The worst thing is that the ADF (Australian Defence Force) itself does a lot of screening of these people, and on an on-going basis. You would think that would be enough for us to at least get them (and their familes, as noted above) out of the country, and we can finalize screening, etc, later.

    Instead, we've been tardy, and this has not been expedited, much to the frustration and anger of some in the ADF, who feel let down by the government.
     
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  8. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    This is a binary view of the world, and in reality things are much more problematic that this. Of course if all people were non-violent, then the world would be more peaceful.
    Equally, though, we have used violence in the past to control anti-social behaviours, on a global scale (peace-keeping missions, for example) and on a local domestic basis, ranging down to day-to-day policing.

    People seem to equate 'peace' with some ideal end state, but the OP wasn't talking about peace in a holistic sense (including of the mind) but rather a reduction in physical violence, sectarian fighting, and general violent crime levels (I believe). However, I should link in @firedragon in case I am misunderstanding.

    In that context, though, it's ENTIRELY possible for violent people to produce peace. It comes at an extreme cost in other ways, of course, and we can freely judge if the juice is worth the squeeze (so to speak).
     
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  9. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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  10. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    How do you define a 'legitimate' government in the case of Afghanistan?
     
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  11. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    Teach the children Unconditional Love. Teach and show the children the Real Truth for one day, the children will grow up.
     
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  12. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Taliban means students. They were a small bunch students who initially fought corruption. They rescued abused children. Famously they rescued an abducted child from a warlord type of guy. This was their beginning. They put an end to it with a very hard fist. I really dont know why but in the 90's this child abduction and rape was rampant. Looting and kidnap was everywhere and that we know why. No governance. The Taliban put an end to it within around two years if I am not off with the timelines. If that is not bringing peace to a land, I dont know what else is. ;)

    Thats what I mean by peace.
     
  13. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Hmm. In some areas, you will find a child without a limb almost every where you go. Children in the village will play together, and every day they will see these kids with out a limb. Its been 20 years since the occupation, and most of the Taliban fighters will be young and were kids when the U.S bombed their parents. Where ever you go, someones someone would have been bombed. One guy was assassinated at a wedding, and around 500 people were killed with him. Why? Because it was a drone attack. So this is what they grew up with. The psychological effects on these human beings maybe, just maybe beyond repair. Even children. So when these children grow up, some would want to migrate to a western country, and the others would wish to remain. Some would remain out of no choice. But all of them will carry burdens you would never understand.
     
  14. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Yes anarchy is one of the quicker paths to totalitarian subjugation.

    No, subjugation is not equivalent to "peace".

    In my opinion.
     
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  15. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    In my opinion what we really need is innovative ways of educating illiterate people.

    Once people can read they can begin to communicate, and once they begin to communicate across distances they can learn better ways than oppression.

    Improvement may take a long time, but I remain optimistic that for as long as we can educate people, improvement can be slowly attained.
     
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  16. Rival

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    We did manage to cut rates of FGM in Africa by teaching women about its effects, so I am actually hopeful at this in a small way.
     
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  17. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    1) Knew about the Taliban meaning. I'm hoping this means their youthful ardor is now tempered to some small degree. Hopeful, rather than expecting.
    2) Yup, that's about what I figured you meant. Some people in the thread seem to be talking about 'peace' as some sort of all inclusive concept which involves calmness, and love and whatever. But you mean it in the more pragmatic sense...an absence of violence, crime, etc. I've lived in a very dangerous place at one point, and I think some people might underestimate how much people in dangerous settings would be willing to sacrifice just to remove the fear of unexpected and unregulated violence from their communities.

    This has been an interesting thread. Cheers!
     
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  18. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Ooof...and it goes back further.
    I can only imagine what some of the parents and grandparents went through during the Soviet occupation.
    Not to mention what's commonly referred to as the Afghan Civil War in the power vacuum created by the Soviet withdrawal.
     
  19. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
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    Can anyone explain to me, and possibly others, what Afghanistan was like pre-Soviet etc?
     
  20. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    I mean...I could have a crack in an academic sense (never been there, basing it on my reading).
    But I'll hold off a short while in case someone has a more personal understanding (plus it will take a while, and I've pretty much burned my break time now...lol)

    Assuming you mean in a holistic sense? Politically, socially, etc?
     
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