I deleted my previous post, it did not feel correct to answer the way i did. I think of a better answer if i get one
Your post was fine and apt, imo.
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Proof of Islam?
- Thread starter Wolf Spirit
- Start date
Your post was fine and apt, imo.
Why many, including you, are Christians? Do you believe that Christianity is the only right religion? If so, why? I think your authentic answer as to why you are a Christian will answer the questions of the OP.
I think your premise is wrong (but I may be wrong in my judgement).
For example, you can understand "I am the way" from a standpoint of a body-mind self or you can realise "I am" as the awareness that is the Seer of the body-mind. If you have the latter understanding then you will grasp the universalism of the core esoteric teaching of all religions, which differ in their exoteric aspects, in keeping with cultural and temporal requirements.
...
So, I'd actually love it if you found the time to write it all out, but I will write out that its only by the "luck" of my upbringing that I have been consistently exposed to the Qur'an and made into a Muslim. I can scarcely imagine accurately how difficult it would be to come to accept Islam or any of the numerous other religions I incorporate and study without that initial framework and relationship with religion. It is a huge part of my character and personality. How could I have known or done anything? I think this is coming up right now perhaps due to Mother's day and the importance of Mothers in our initial development.
Shad
Veteran Member
Religion is indoctrinated into the young. Ergo people are told to believe before they are taught about any justified, if any, reasons to believe.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Bingo! That was really my point all along.
Most of us are born into a tradition and it grows with us, until we reach a point at which we may challenge it. So we mostly start by accepting and later, maybe, pick holes in it. Whereas a different tradition has to be learnt from zero, with our existing model alongside at every turn, offering a conflicting view.
My travels in the Middle and Far East, where I found different religious traditions as deeply ingrained as a my own is in Europe, as with much the same appeal in terms of offering a sense of inner calm, taking you outside the daily grind, and offering guidance for living, made me sceptical that any one religion can honestly claim unique access to spiritual truth. In the case of Islam I came away with the suspicion that its hold on people may partly come from the poetic language of the Koran when it is recited, which made quite an impression on me, even though I don't speak the language.
I never heard it recited until later on, it was always just read to me and then by me in English, so for me its hold was the way it speaks directly to the reader (Muhammed) and the soft and sensitive seeming impression or character of the various Prophets depicted. Furthermore that it was used as a divinatory tool in some senses by opening it at random and seeming that it would open uo on something pertinent or being questioned at the time. The Bible has a very negative effect on me in comparison after repeated exposure to the Qur'an, literally I feel such deep hatred when exposed to the Bible that every fibre in my body wants to destroy it and curse everyone who ever took part in its creation, I think there is nothing in this world that quite excites such intense hatred from me. What it says about each Prophet I would want each of those men killed and the authors as well, all dead and thrown into hell. It appears almost something spiritual is going on with such intense reactions in contrast between one or another but its probably just a strong affection developed for the characters of the Quranic depiction which when depicted in the fashion of the Bible is like they are making up grotesque lies about my own family.
I am shocked by "Muslims" who claim support of the Bible or Hadiths too. The Qur'an mentions this self-righteous averse reaction of total hatred or disdain towards what is viewed as evil, but that its exclusive to only some people. The tolerance of Muslims towards the books of the Bible or even the Hadith and what is within means to me they either aren't reading it or have dulled and numbed senses or hearts. The reaction I expect from any noble person is to be frank that the Bible is unacceptable and intolerable for the blasphemous and slanderous and dementing tales within it which should never be accepted or used by Muslims in a way that they believe such, huge swathes of it would need to be eradicated which would leave very little behind, as there seems already very little in it in the first place pertaining to real proper ethics and virtue and honor with as many snakes and traitorous and vile people are called "heroes" within it. I can list so many. I still study the Bible extensively but its like working in a sewer or some hell hole for me.
Sorry for the harshness, but its genuine. Some people may feel that way about the text of the Qur'an which is literally incomprehensible to me how anyone could compare the two and find the Qur'an anywhere close to the Bible in how disturbing and corrupting it seems to be.
That is what makes it seem almost supernatural, that peoples eyes and minds are just cross-eyed and cross-wired by God and we are zombies in whatever faction we are made to be a part of or move to, because for me the Qur'an is one of the best and pretty sterile and clean and clear religious books. It promises though that only select people will be able to actually see it and read it and the rest aren't even allowed to and its like cryptically concealed and mangled to their senses.
Try this out:
exchemist
Veteran Member
That reaction seems most peculiar to me. But there we are.
I'd like to understand it as well, since I see other people not seeming to mind the antics of Noah, Abraham, Lot, Jacob, The Judge(?), and whoever else. They seem to just totally not be affected at all by what it says they are doing. Like they are immune or something or totally callous. It makes ke think that its something to do with the "heart" and sensitivity.
exchemist
Veteran Member
What is your display image about? Its pretty significant seeming to me due to all my mentioning of "7" and the 7 over and encompassing the "6".
exchemist
Veteran Member
Norbornane. C7H12.
I find it an interesting molecule, due to the related norbornyl cation, which has for years been the subject of some dispute in organic chemistry. It is a suspected example of 3-centre bonding, something that is otherwise practically unknown in carbon compounds : 2-Norbornyl cation - Wikipedia
Norbornane. C7H12.
I find it an interesting molecule, due to the related norbornyl cation, which has for years been the subject of some dispute in organic chemistry. It is a suspected example of 3-centre bonding, something that is otherwise practically unknown in carbon compounds : 2-Norbornyl cation - Wikipedia
Absolutely fascinating! Thank you so much for explaining all that, I really would have had no idea what that was regarding, and what about it makes you want to make it your display picture as a reminder to yourself and something shown to others?
Your explanation reminds me of a favorite piece of music I interpret very spiritually:
Add some (H)ydrogen to make the link move!
ttps://youtu.be/7XzqCUbiPc4
Lyrics:
ttps://youtu.be/oKmIvzC5NUE
Rational Agnostic
Well-Known Member
There are no good reasons that I have seen.
There also this proof if you accept God exists:
God is capable of sending miracles (1)
If God is capable, but doesn't send at this current time there must be reasons for it. (2)
The religion that shows the reasons as to why miracles are not in the present day and shows in the most reasonable manner is the true religion (3).
The best reasons are explained by Shiite Islam, it's due injustice of first generations towards miracles and signs of God that has made it difficult for people to accept the signs of God and there is a verse to this effect, that in the past God never stop sending with miracles except that the first ones denied them (Suratal Isra).
It's due to hostility towards the followers of Ahlulbayt, that people denied the miracles performed by Ahlulbayt as lies by their followers, but it was so narrated, that even Sunnis didn't deny them but recorded them in their books as "Karamat" saying it's different than miracles but these are just gifts God honored them by (except some of them where exactly miracles like curing the blind and so on and so forth).
When you won't even go investigate the issue yourself, and see the miracles as proofs, you've shut down the purpose of miracles.
And if miracles performed just increases oppression to those narrating them rather then investigation, then, it ceases to function with purpose.
The Mahdi will come back with miracles. If we deny them as proofs, may God curse and destroy us.
God is capable of sending miracles (1)
If God is capable, but doesn't send at this current time there must be reasons for it. (2)
The religion that shows the reasons as to why miracles are not in the present day and shows in the most reasonable manner is the true religion (3).
The best reasons are explained by Shiite Islam, it's due injustice of first generations towards miracles and signs of God that has made it difficult for people to accept the signs of God and there is a verse to this effect, that in the past God never stop sending with miracles except that the first ones denied them (Suratal Isra).
It's due to hostility towards the followers of Ahlulbayt, that people denied the miracles performed by Ahlulbayt as lies by their followers, but it was so narrated, that even Sunnis didn't deny them but recorded them in their books as "Karamat" saying it's different than miracles but these are just gifts God honored them by (except some of them where exactly miracles like curing the blind and so on and so forth).
When you won't even go investigate the issue yourself, and see the miracles as proofs, you've shut down the purpose of miracles.
And if miracles performed just increases oppression to those narrating them rather then investigation, then, it ceases to function with purpose.
The Mahdi will come back with miracles. If we deny them as proofs, may God curse and destroy us.
Duncan
Member
Hello Wolf spirit hope you are doing well, It is a very interesting question, I have read the answers of the brothers and sisters, but please allow me to give my opinion and answer to why Islam is the only religion of God.
You see Islam is not a new religion, but the same truth that God revealed through all His prophets to every people. For a fifth of the world's population, Islam is both a religion and a complete way of life. Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the majority have nothing to do with the extremely grave events which have come to be associated with their faith.
Let’s talk frankly. Almost never do non-Muslims study Islam until they have first exhausted the religions of their exposure. Only after they have grown dissatisfied with the religions familiar to them, meaning Judaism, Christianity and all the fashionable “-isms”—Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism (and, as my young daughter once added, “tourism”)—do they consider Islam.
Perhaps other religions do not answer the big questions of life, such as “Who made us?” and “Why are we here?” Perhaps other religions do not reconcile the injustices of life with a fair and just Creator. Perhaps we find hypocrisy in the clergy, untenable tenets of faith in the canon, or corruption in the scripture. Whatever the reason, we perceive shortcomings in the religions of our exposure, and look elsewhere. And the ultimate “elsewhere” is Islam.
Now, Muslims would not like to hear me say that Islam is the “ultimate elsewhere.” But it is. Despite the fact that Muslims comprise one-fourth to one-fifth of the world’s population, non-Muslim media smears Islam with such horrible slanders that few non-Muslims view the religion in a positive light. Hence, it is normally the last religion seekers investigate.
Another problem is that by the time non-Muslims examine Islam, other religions have typically heightened their skepticism: If every “God-given” scripture we have ever seen is corrupt, how can the Islamic scripture be different? If charlatans have manipulated religions to suit their desires, how can we imagine the same not to have happened with Islam?
The answer can be given in a few lines, but takes books to explain. The short answer is this: There is a God. He is fair and just, and He wants us to achieve the reward of paradise. However, God has placed us in this worldly life as a test, to weed out the worthy from the unworthy. And we will be lost if left to our own devices. Why? Because we don’t know what He wants from us. We can’t navigate the twists and turns of this life without His guidance, and hence, He has given us guidance in the form of revelation.
Sure, previous religions have been corrupted, and that is one of the reasons why we have a chain of revelation. Ask yourself: wouldn’t God send another revelation if the preceding scriptures were impure? If preceding scriptures were corrupted, humans would need another revelation, to keep upon the straight path of His design.
So we should expect preceding scriptures to be corrupted, and we should expect the final revelation to be pure and unadulterated,for we cannot imagine a loving God leaving us astray. What we can imagine is God giving us a scripture, and men corrupting it; God giving us another scripture, and men corrupting it again … and again, and again. Until God sends a final revelation He promises to preserve until the end of time.
Muslims consider this final revelation to be the Holy Quran. You consider it … worth looking into. So let us return to the title of this article: Why Islam? Why should we believe that Islam is the religion of truth, the religion that possesses the pure and final revelation?
“Oh, just trust me.”
Now, how many times have you heard that line? A famous comedian used to joke that people of different cities cuss one another out in different ways. In Chicago, they cuss a person out this way, in Los Angeles they cuss a person out that way, but in New York they just say, “Trust me.”
So don’t trust me—trust our Creator. Read the Quran, read books and study good websites. But whatever you do, get started, take it seriously, and pray for our Creator to guide you.
Your life may not depend on it, but your soul most definitely does.
Please do ask me if you have any question I will be more than happy to answer.
I testify to God and Mohammad being his last receiver of revelation to humanity, but to keep sanity, I also testify Islam is a false religion and Muslims upon falsehood like others and all sects under titles in this day and age are almost meaningless.
Islam is undefined, in this time, because there is no current leader that the public can refer to disputes and for clarification and who has proof of their authority. Till the Mahdi comes back, there is no true religion on earth. God becoming pleased with Submission as a religion was contingent upon accepting the Authority of Ahlulbayt and Wilayat of Ali, which the nation didn't, and now recite a Quran encrypted due to the sorcery on the hearts.
Islam is undefined, in this time, because there is no current leader that the public can refer to disputes and for clarification and who has proof of their authority. Till the Mahdi comes back, there is no true religion on earth. God becoming pleased with Submission as a religion was contingent upon accepting the Authority of Ahlulbayt and Wilayat of Ali, which the nation didn't, and now recite a Quran encrypted due to the sorcery on the hearts.
Duncan
Member
Islam is a full package, we don`t pick and choose, everything is clear, Islam was here since our father Adam peace be upon him put foot on earth.
This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. 5:3
Duncan
Member
The Holy Prophet Muhammad (S) is the last of the divine prophets. After His Eminence, no other prophet is going to be sent by God. The Prophet of Islam, from the beginning of his mission, introduced himself as the seal of the prophets and was accepted by the Muslims as such. The subject of finality of prophethood in the Islamic milieu is considered to be an important matter and it is not in need of evidence.
Finality is mentioned in the Holy Quran as well as books of traditions. It is mentioned in Quran that:
“Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Apostle of Allah and the Last of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things.” (33:40)
If the Arabic word of KH-T-M is recited with vowel ‘I’ on ‘T”, as some reciters have done this, it would imply one who ends something; thus it clearly shows that The Holy Prophet Muhammad (S) is the last of the prophets. But if it is recited with the vowel ‘A’ on ‘T’ it denotes a thing with which something ends. Ring and seal are also called as such, because they are placed at the end of a letter and indicate the end of it. According to the second possibility also, it is concluded from the verse that the Holy Prophet (S) is the last prophet, because he is introduced as a seal, which has come at the end of the letter of prophethood.
Therefore, no other prophet is to appear after him. Thus the finality of the Prophet of Islam is nicely concluded from the above verse as the Muslims of the early period of Islam also understood it in this meaning and did not have any doubt in the finality of the prophethood of His Eminence.
Other verses also exist in this regard, but there is no need to mention them here.
A large number of traditions also exist with regard to finality of prophethood and some of them are mentioned below:Saad Ibn Abi Waqqas has narrated from his father that the Messenger of Allah (S) said to Imam Ali (a.s.):You are to me as Harun was to Musa (a.s.), except that there is no prophet after me.