Persecution of Christians

[mikkel_the_dane]

But your enemies (why are they considered so if god has criteria only for love) will die forever if they reject god. Being god doesn't excuse that christians support god and god does kill others who, quote on quote, reject him.

If god let all people go to heaven, then you'd have a point. Since he doesn't, christians still support a god who judge rejecters and punish them forever. Punishment for rejection is not based on love at all.

Not all Christians understand rejection like you do. In at least version one even some atheists, who reject God, can go to heaven.

 

[robocop (actually)]

14 of the top 16 countries where Christians are most persecuted are muslim countries; could words like these be to blame?

Quran Surah 5, Verse 72
Those who say "Jesus is God" are disbelievers; they will not enter paradise, but hell. These evil people will have no helper!

Quran Surah 9, Verse 5
Kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, capture them, besiege them, and lie in wait for them on every way!

Sahih al-Bukhari 2476
Muhammad said, The Hour will not be established until Isa descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross and kill the pigs(Christians).


Romans 8:35-39
Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Tribulation or fear or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written, "For your sake we are killed all the day; as sheep for the slaughter we have been counted" But in all this we are more than overcomers through Him who loved us. For I am confident that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The koran is a big problem here, but most of the violence is between Muslims

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The koran is a big problem here, but most of the violence is between Muslims

No! The interpretation is the problem.

 

[Teritos]

Rightly in your opinion, personally I don't see how genocide is ever justified. I don't see how killing everyone in sodom and gomorrah in what amounts to a jealous rage is justified, i don't see how commanding your followers to kill a nation of men and take all the pretty virgins for themselves can be justified. I don't see how commanding your followers to enslave, steal, subjugate and rape can be justified.

But obviously you can.

God never commanded to rape in the OT. And about the other things, you should realize that the time of the OT was a crazy time, it was for example usual to throw little children into the fire. God only destroyed wicked people. Leviticus 18

 

[Teritos]

Here's two as examples:

Deuteronomy 20:16-17
But as for the towns of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you must not let anything that breathes remain alive. You shall annihilate them—the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites—just as the Lord your God has commanded,

1 Samuel 15:2-3
Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did in opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

Not to mention the fact that idolatry/worshipping other gods is a capital crime in the Torah.

These are reports referring to special moments, these are not eternal commands.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Not all Christians understand rejection like you do. In at least version one even some atheists, who reject God, can go to heaven.

How do they reconcile the bible's extreme focus on us vs. them?

It's sketched throughout scripture from god's chosen people to those who believe.

 

[Left Coast]

These are reports referring to special moments, these are not eternal commands.

Many Muslims interpret their violent verses as limited to that specific time and place as well.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

God never commanded to rape in the OT. And about the other things, you should realize that the time of the OT was a crazy time, it was for example usual to throw little children into the fire. God only destroyed wicked people. Leviticus 18

To your God. Allah does the same. Christians are also wicked to God. Just another God.

So as an atheists I am wicked to a lot of murderous Gods. That tells me, I must be doing something right.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

How do they reconcile the bible's extreme focus on us vs. them?

It's sketched throughout scripture from god's chosen people to those who believe.

It is the Catholics. They accept that some Christians can do bad things and turn some people against the idea of God, but don't hold that against those who reject God in such cases, so they can still go to Heaven, as long as they are generally good.

 

[Teritos]

Many Muslims interpret their violent verses as limited to that specific time and place as well.

The context of the bible passages you quoted shows clearly that it is referring to special moments, but look at the verses of Quran I have quoted, read the context, it seems to be eternal commands.

 

[ChristineM]

God never commanded to rape in the OT. And about the other things, you should realize that the time of the OT was a crazy time, it was for example usual to throw little children into the fire. God only destroyed wicked people. Leviticus 18

So taking women against their will to treat as your wife/sex slave is not rape. Fair enough

You want verse numbers?

"Wicked" in whos opinion?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The context of the bible passages you quoted shows clearly that it is referring to special moments, but look at the verses of Quran I have quoted, read the context, it seems to be eternal commands.

Kill has the same definition in the Quran as it does in the Bible. You're (not you) intentionally putting someone(s) to death for their disobedience and/or rejection of belief. The bible isn't special.

 

[Teritos]

So taking women against their will to treat as your wife/sex slave is not rape. Fair enough

You want verse numbers?

Nowhere does God command rape in the OT.

"Wicked" in whos opinion?

According to Leviticus 18, the people who God destroyed in Canaan have killed their own little Children and have committed big sexual immorality.

 

[Left Coast]

The context of the bible passages you quoted shows clearly that it is referring to special moments, but look at the verses of Quran I have quoted, read the context, it seems to be eternal commands.

Many, many Muslims disagree with you. This is somewhat like the Hebrew discussion earlier today. Have you read the entire Qur'an? How much have you studied its interpretation? How many Muslims have you actually discussed this issue with?

For example, in Surah 9, even if you read the rest of verse 5 and a few verses beyond, you'd see the command is context-specific and does not mean all non-Muslims everywhere should be killed:

"When the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists wherever you find them. And capture them, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayers, and pay the alms, then let them go their way. God is Most Forgiving, Most Merciful. And if anyone of the polytheists asks you for protection, give him protection so that he may hear the Word of God; then escort him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know. How can there be a treaty with the polytheists on the part of God and His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at the Sacred Mosque? As long as they are upright with you, be upright with them. God loves the pious."

 

[exchemist]

Where does the NT say, "go and kill people with different faith" like the islamic scriptures say about Christians?

Matthew 5:43-44
You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.
Matthew 5:38-39
You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I say to you: Do not resist evil, but whoever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.

See post 7.

 

[ChristineM]

Nowhere does God command rape in the OT.

According to Leviticus 18, the people who God destroyed in Canaan have killed their own little Children and have committed big sexual immorality.

Do you know the definition of rape?

Deuteronomy 21:10-13 commands rape

Ahh right, gods opinion. Do you have evidence that a a whole nation of parents kill their children?

And what is sexual immorality? Assuming whatever sex was going on was consensual then what immorality? Perhaps he men took captive women for their sex toys without gods consent?

And i see you haven't touched on my other points, i will assume from that you gave no objection to them

 

[metis]

Serving Persecuted Christians Worldwide - World Watch List 2020 - Open Doors UK & Ireland

The history of Christianity is hardly exercises in non-violence nor the acceptance of "pagan". I'm Catholic, and the past history of my Church was all too often quite brutal. Same with Protestants, btw.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Nowhere does God command rape in the OT.

According to Leviticus 18, the people who God destroyed in Canaan have killed their own little Children and have committed big sexual immorality.

Actions speak louder than words?

 

[metis]

Since the Left makes excuses for Islam because they both share a common enemy, Christians,

You're on a roll today it seems. Didn't your mommy tell you the use of stereotyping is pathetically immoral? Aren't you aware so many Christians are part of what you're calling "the Left"? Aren't you aware that even Jesus would probably be considered a "Leftist" today?

 

[Teritos]

This is the second thread you have started on this, based on the same 2 bits of quote-mining. Why do you not give us some context, so we can work out what is meant?

Meanwhile, how about this from 2 Chronicles:
And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.

Deuteronomy also has a number of passages exhorting people to kill those that follow other gods.

So we can all play this game. Does it prove anything? Or help in any way?

That's the law, the Torah, but it's only referring to the nation of Israel. Who has broken the law in Israel had to die, but this is not the same like what is written in Quran, which says: "Kill the disbelievers wherever you find them"