Persecution of Christians

[Unveiled Artist]

God will be like fire from heaven in the end, but that is his judgment.
But if a "prophet" gives his followers permission to judge on earth by saying: "kill the disbelievers" and especially has a problem with Christians, then that is a difference.

Will people be punished for not believing in god?

 

[Nakosis]

14 of the top 16 countries where Christians are most persecuted are muslim countries; could words like these be to blame?

Quran Surah 5, Verse 72
Those who say "Jesus is God" are disbelievers; they will not enter paradise, but hell. These evil people will have no helper!

Quran Surah 9, Verse 5
Kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, capture them, besiege them, and lie in wait for them on every way!

Sahih al-Bukhari 2476
Muhammad said, The Hour will not be established until Isa descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross and kill the pigs(Christians).


Romans 8:35-39
Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Tribulation or fear or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written, "For your sake we are killed all the day; as sheep for the slaughter we have been counted" But in all this we are more than overcomers through Him who loved us. For I am confident that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Do you feel you are being persecuted by Muslims?

 

[Teritos]

I find Sahih al-Bukhari 2476 as:
Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "The Hour will not be established until the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the Jizya tax. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it (as charitable gifts).

So I question whether it goes as you say.

The son of "Mary" is Isa(from Islam). And by pigs he means Christians, therefore the connection to the cross.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The son of Mary is Isa. And by pigs he means Christians, therefore the connection to the cross.

Couldn't pigs be just pigs?
I need more than you just say that pigs are Christians, since you are maybe biased.

 

[ChristineM]

I wonder who was persecuted during christian led ethnic cleansing in Bosnia?

See also Muslim cleansing: A global pandemic?


Many years ago i asked a muslim muslim employee a rather in depth question i will paraphrase here to keep to the point.

Me "when will muslims stop killing non muslims"
Nadira "when non muslims stop stealing our land and killing us"

You see it works both ways.

 

[Left Coast]

I wonder who was persecuted during christian led ethnic cleansing in Bosnia?

See also Muslim cleansing: A global pandemic?


Many years ago i asked a muslim muslim employee a rather in depth question i will paraphrase here to keep to the point.

Me "when will muslims stop killing non muslims"
Nadira "when non muslims stop stealing our land and killing us"

You see it works both ways.

The double standard is glaring. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Colt]

14 of the top 16 countries where Christians are most persecuted are muslim countries; could words like these be to blame?

Quran Surah 5, Verse 72
Those who say "Jesus is God" are disbelievers; they will not enter paradise, but hell. These evil people will have no helper!

Quran Surah 9, Verse 5
Kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, capture them, besiege them, and lie in wait for them on every way!

Sahih al-Bukhari 2476
Muhammad said, The Hour will not be established until Isa descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross and kill the pigs(Christians).


Romans 8:35-39
Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Tribulation or fear or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written, "For your sake we are killed all the day; as sheep for the slaughter we have been counted" But in all this we are more than overcomers through Him who loved us. For I am confident that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Since the Left makes excuses for Islam because they both share a common enemy, Christians, they will be along to hassle you about thus thread.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Since the Left makes excuses for Islam because they both share a common enemy, Christians, they will be along to hassle you about thus thread.

No, some Christians are on the left, just as some Muslims are, just as for both some are on the right. So the world is not as simple as you put it.

 

[Left Coast]

Since the Left makes excuses for Islam because they both share a common enemy, Christians, they will be along to hassle you about thus thread.

No one is making excuses for Islam here that I've seen. What we've done is point out the glaring double standard of fundamentalist Christians complaining about fundamentalist Islam.

 

[Teritos]

@ChristineM
The OT contains cruel reports, but these are reports. But if God, Yahweh, has judged in the OT then always rightly.

Will people be punished for not believing in god?

In the end, all people who have rejected the gospel will, I quote Peter, "be consumed by fire" but the fire will come from God Himself, like the flood and not from mankind, this is a difference.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

@ChristineM
The OT contains cruel reports, but these are reports. But if God, Yahweh, has judged in the OT then always rightly.

In the end, all people who have rejected the gospel will, I quote Peter, "be consumed by fire" but the fire will come from God Himself, like the flood and not from mankind, this is a difference.

That is your belief. Not mine.

 

[Left Coast]

@ChristineM
The OT contains cruel reports, but these are reports. But if God, Yahweh, has judged in the OT then always rightly.

In the end, all people who have rejected the gospel will, I quote Peter, "be consumed by fire" but the fire will come from God Himself, like the flood and not from mankind, this is a difference.

So when their God commands violence, it's awful, but when your God commands violence, it's just. Do you not see the double standard?

 

[Teritos]

So when their God commands violence, it's awful, but when your God commands violence, it's just. Do you not see the double standard?

The God of the Christians never commanded this; where does God say to the Christians "kill disbelievers"?

Matthew 5:43-44
You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.
Matthew 5:38-39
You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I say to you: Do not resist evil, but whoever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@ChristineM
The OT contains cruel reports, but these are reports. But if God, Yahweh, has judged in the OT then always rightly.

In the end, all people who have rejected the gospel will, I quote Peter, "be consumed by fire" but the fire will come from God Himself, like the flood and not from mankind, this is a difference.

You proved my point. Eternal punishment, for sake of discussion, is a lot worse than temporal one if going by biblical views (and the verse I mentioned earlier about the flesh and soul).

Just because christians support god for killing people who reject the gospel, doesn't make them any less guilty than god. Kind of like rooting at the sidelines for capitol punishment but feeling good that you're not the one pushing his last needle.

 

[Teritos]

You proved my point. Eternal punishment, for sake of discussion, is a lot worse than temporal one if going by biblical views (and the verse I mentioned earlier about the flesh and soul).

Just because christians support god for killing people who reject the gospel, doesn't make them any less guilty than god. Kind of like rooting at the sidelines for capitol punishment but feeling good that you're not the one pushing his last needle.

Like I said, it's a big difference If a prophet says to billions followers "kill the disbelievers".
He gave them permission to judge, but the God of the Christians didn't allow that to Christians. Their Judge is God himself in the end, and not themselves. God said to the Christians, Love your enemies.

 

[ChristineM]

@ChristineM
The OT contains cruel reports, but these are reports. But if God, Yahweh, has judged in the OT then always rightly.

In the end, all people who have rejected the gospel will, I quote Peter, "be consumed by fire" but the fire will come from God Himself, like the flood and not from mankind, this is a difference.

Rightly in your opinion, personally I don't see how genocide is ever justified. I don't see how killing everyone in sodom and gomorrah in what amounts to a jealous rage is justified, i don't see how commanding your followers to kill a nation of men and take all the pretty virgins for themselves can be justified. I don't see how commanding your followers to enslave, steal, subjugate and rape can be justified.

But obviously you can.

 

[Teritos]

Romans 12:20
But if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him drink; for if you do these things, you will gather fiery coals on his head.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Like I said, it's a big difference If a prophet says to billions followers "kill the disbelievers".
He gave them permission to judge, but the God of the Christians didn't allow that to Christians. Their Judge is God himself in the end, and not themselves. God said to the Christians, Love your enemies.

But your enemies (why are they considered so if god has criteria only for love) will die forever if they reject god. Being god doesn't excuse that christians support god and god does kill others who, quote on quote, reject him.

If god let all people go to heaven, then you'd have a point. Since he doesn't, christians still support a god who judge rejecters and punish them forever. Punishment for rejection is not based on love at all.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Like I said, it's a big difference If a prophet says to billions followers "kill the disbelievers".
He gave them permission to judge, but the God of the Christians didn't allow that to Christians. Their Judge is God himself in the end, and not themselves. God said to the Christians, Love your enemies.

Well, my priest, a Christian, once blessed me and my weapon in the name of God, so I as a soldier could kill enemy soldiers with the backup of God.
So no, that is your version of Christianity, but that is not the only one.

 

[Left Coast]

The God of the Christians never commanded this; where does God say to the Christians "kill disbelievers"?

Matthew 5:43-44
You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.
Matthew 5:38-39
You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I say to you: Do not resist evil, but whoever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Here's two as examples:

Deuteronomy 20:16-17
But as for the towns of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you must not let anything that breathes remain alive. You shall annihilate them—the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites—just as the Lord your God has commanded,

1 Samuel 15:2-3
Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did in opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

Not to mention the fact that idolatry/worshipping other gods is a capital crime in the Torah.