Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It's a way of giving the left what they wanted by decreasing the surplus population that has been so parasitic on the world.
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New study shows Hydroxychloroquine cuts death rate for COVID-19 patients
- Thread starter Shaul
- Start date
It's a way of giving the left what they wanted by decreasing the surplus population that has been so parasitic on the world.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
But why do conservatives care about treatment either way? I thought they believed the disease was overblown if not an outright hoax and refuse to take preventative measures? In light of that it seems rather silly to be high-five each other over this.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Odd that you'd make a joke about Trump thinning out his own constituency. I don't see anyone heeding Trump's advice regarding the pandemic other than his supporters.
esmith
Veteran Member
Sorry you are badly mistaken Hydrochloride is an approved drug. Get you facts straight.
Drugs@FDA: FDA-Approved Drugs
Acetaminophen is also an FDA approved drug.
So what? We're talking about C19, not a headache.
Do you not understand the difference? That drugs aren't approved by the FDA for just anything?
Tom
Good reply to my post Lewis as it was on-topic.
I think I might be getting obsessed with hatred of the left since COVID and BLM. Happens.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
That is within what you requested, amd it wasn't even directed at me. I was showing it did happen. For more details I will leave that up to you, because I am past the point of exhaustion of Trump's bs and the bs from everywhere else.
Bear Wild
Well-Known Member
Yes this study shows evidence to further study these medications but the results of this study must still be held in caution because this was a retrospective study. non-randomized, and not blinded studies. The number of people in this receiving treatment was much greater than those not receiving treatment - 783 treated with both medications 1202 on hydroxychloroquine, 147 on azithromycin and 409 on neither medication. In addition those receiving hydroxychloroquine were much more likely to receive steroids (which are known to help) with 74% with both medications and 78% of those receiving hydroxychloroquine alone compared to only 35.7% of those receiving neither medication. In addition those on hydroxychloroquine had a higher chance of receiving Tocilizumab also thought to be helpful. So this was not a conclusive study by any means.
There is evidence that both hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin may help reducing the virus but there is still insufficient evidence to make a clear decision about their effectiveness. I hope as better designed prospective studies are completed we will see some benefit because we need everything we can use to treat different options. There is greater evidence for some of the antivirals as well as the dexamethasone study. In the end our decisions should be made on what has the best evidence rather than what we want to work. By the way do not forget that when trump touted this medication there was insufficient evidence.
Bear Wild
Well-Known Member
It is not at this point approved for the Covid-19 infection which is what this discussion was about about. It is approved for malaria and lupus as well as some other autoimmune disorders.
Bear Wild
Well-Known Member
At least there is absolutely no evidence of hatred on the right. Right?
I think it fascinating that people can pick one study and ignore the myriad studies from around the world with the different results and then blame the rejection of that one study on people who dislike trump.
For the information of all you trump centric people out there, american isn't the only country in the world, in fact it accounts for less than 5% of the world population.
Trump is irrelevant to science.
For the information of all you trump centric people out there, american isn't the only country in the world, in fact it accounts for less than 5% of the world population.
Trump is irrelevant to science.
exchemist
Veteran Member
That's interesting. It seems to have approximately halved the chance of dying, among the very ill patients it was given to, reducing mortality from 26% to 13%, roughly speaking. Other studies don't seem to have shown such good results. I think this is quite common. Normally, medicine gets a lot longer to evaluate all the data before it hits the headlines. And then of course there are the well-known risks of this drug, to set against the benefits.
I suppose we'll have to wait and see how the authorities react to this new study, in the context of all the others. The last thing we need is for this study to become some kind of political football, of course - Oops, too late.
I take Hyperantisocialifed.
It's been shown effective in avoiding the plague.
It's been shown effective in avoiding the plague.
esmith
Veteran Member
It isn't now but it was approved by the FDA for emergency use:
See: FDA cautions use of hydroxychloroquine/chloroquine for COVID-19
and click on the link review of safety issues which takes you to a pdf file: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drug...oroquine-Cholorquine - 19May2020_Redacted.pdf
On March 28, 2020, FDA authorized the emergency use of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine supplied from the Strategic National Stockpile to treat adults and adolescents who weigh 50 kg or more and are hospitalized with COVID-19 for whom a clinical trial is not available, or participation is not feasible.
Daemon Sophic
Avatar in flux
Aw man! You’re playing too nice. I wanted to make the righties wail and fumble about a little more!....
I suppose we'll have to wait and see how the authorities react to this new study, in the context of all the others. The last thing we need is for this study to become some kind of political football, of course - Oops, too late.
Bummer.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Yes this emergency authorisation was later withdrawn: F.D.A. Revokes Emergency Approval of Malaria Drugs Promoted by Trump
This new study was not available when the withdrawal took place (mid June). I have no idea whether it would have been sufficient to get them to stay their hand.
There are also several problems with the study, which anyone who cares to can read here Study finds hydroxychloroquine helped coronavirus patients survive better - CNN
'Researchers not involved in the Henry Ford study pointed out it wasn't of the same quality of the studies showing hydroxychloroquine did not help patients, and said other treatments, such as the use of the steroid dexamethasone, might have accounted for the better survival of some patients.
'concomitant steroid use in patients receiving hydroxychloroquine was more than double the non-treated group. This is relevant considering the recent RECOVERY trial that showed a mortality benefit with dexamethasone." The steroid dexamethasone can reduce inflammation in seriously ill patients.
'the Detroit paper excluded 267 patients -- nearly 10% of the study population -- who had not yet been discharged from the hospital.
He said this might have skewed the results to make hydroxychloroquine look better than it really was. Those patients might have still been in the hospital because they were very sick, and if they died, excluding them from the study made hydroxychloroquine look like more of a lifesaver than it really was.
"There's a little bit of loosey-goosiness here in all this," he told CNN.'
'Researchers not involved in the Henry Ford study pointed out it wasn't of the same quality of the studies showing hydroxychloroquine did not help patients, and said other treatments, such as the use of the steroid dexamethasone, might have accounted for the better survival of some patients.
'concomitant steroid use in patients receiving hydroxychloroquine was more than double the non-treated group. This is relevant considering the recent RECOVERY trial that showed a mortality benefit with dexamethasone." The steroid dexamethasone can reduce inflammation in seriously ill patients.
'the Detroit paper excluded 267 patients -- nearly 10% of the study population -- who had not yet been discharged from the hospital.
He said this might have skewed the results to make hydroxychloroquine look better than it really was. Those patients might have still been in the hospital because they were very sick, and if they died, excluding them from the study made hydroxychloroquine look like more of a lifesaver than it really was.
"There's a little bit of loosey-goosiness here in all this," he told CNN.'
exchemist
Veteran Member
Aha, thanks for this. This is the context I was looking for. So it may show a benefit, but there are some factors present that could have skewed the results.
(Depressing, though predictable, that Peter Navarro, a man who knows jack about medicine, decides nonetheless to make unwarranted claims on the back of it.
)
Bear Wild
Well-Known Member
Emergency use is not the same as saying it is FDA approved. These are two entirely different statements. They also withdrew even the emergency use after this authorization. To say hydroxychloroquine is FDA approved is a misrepresentation of this level of approval. It may become approved in the future but as of today the data does not yet support its use at this time. When Trump took the medication there was not support from the FDA for why he took the medication.