It is Logical

[Trailblazer]

That deserves both a winner and funny but i can only give one frube

Than who is the mystery man who gave me the funny?
Now I have something to add. If suffering is unnecessary, then how can there be a logical reason for it?

Believers have answers, but they are not logical.
They will say that suffering is necessary for spiritual growth, but even if that is true in some cases, there is no way it is true in all cases, and therein lies the problem with their religious apologetic.

The upshot is that there are still many people suffering needlessly and there is no defending their God that allows it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Than who is the mystery man who gave me the funny?
Now I have something to add. If suffering is unnecessary, then how can there be a logical reason for it?

Believers have answers, but they are not logical.
They will say that suffering is necessary for spiritual growth, but even if that is true in some cases, there is no way it is true in all cases, and therein lies the problem with their religious apologetic.

The upshot is that there are still many people suffering needlessly and there is no defending their God that allows it.

There is a "list" button next to the frubles. You can see who gave you what fruble. On my desk top it is clear. I am not sure how obvious it is on a phone if you are using one.

As to unnecessary suffering: It is often claimed that God is omniscient and omnipotent. That would indicate that all suffering is unnecessary. An all powerful all knowing God could eliminate suffering. If there is such a God why has that not happened?

 

[McBell]

Than who is the mystery man who gave me the funny?
Now I have something to add. If suffering is unnecessary, then how can there be a logical reason for it?

Believers have answers, but they are not logical.
They will say that suffering is necessary for spiritual growth, but even if that is true in some cases, there is no way it is true in all cases, and therein lies the problem with their religious apologetic.

The upshot is that there are still many people suffering needlessly and there is no defending their God that allows it.

In my unpopular opinion, god either can not stop suffering or god cares not about the suffering.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I thought your topic was "Logic", not "truth".

The premise you started off is with an assumption, that's why its a logical fallacy. Thats nothing to do with truth.

I see Logical reasoning is required for truth to be found.

Is the Goldbach conjecture true (with proof)?

What does your purely intelligent friend, or his messengers, say?

Ciao

- viole

The Messenger offer from the source of intelligence, is that we have been created to carry forth an ever advancing civilization and we have been given capacity in science and learning to work all these material issues out.

The status of our heart, our interaction with all living things and our environment is the purpose of intelligence and is what is required of us.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

There is a "list" button next to the frubles. You can see who gave you what fruble. On my desk top it is clear. I am not sure how obvious it is on a phone if you are using one.

Thanks for that tip. I usually get a notification so I know who gave it, but not always. Now I know the culprit.

As to unnecessary suffering: It is often claimed that God is omniscient and omnipotent. That would indicate that all suffering is unnecessary. An all powerful all knowing God could eliminate suffering. If there is such a God why has that not happened?

I do not agree that just because God is omniscient and omnipotent therefore all suffering is unnecessary.
Yes, given omnipotence, God could eliminate all suffering, but the fact that God doesn't (even though He could) indicates the omniscient God knows there is a reason not to eliminate all suffering.

Why God has not eliminated all suffering in the world is a big subject.
For starters, there is a reason for some of the suffering in the world, and it has benefits.
Also, there is no way to eliminate all suffering in a material world since the material world is the cause of all our suffering.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There is a "list" button next to the frubles. You can see who gave you what fruble. On my desk top it is clear. I am not sure how obvious it is on a phone if you are using one.

As to unnecessary suffering: It is often claimed that God is omniscient and omnipotent. That would indicate that all suffering is unnecessary. An all powerful all knowing God could eliminate suffering. If there is such a God why has that not happened?

Also @Trailblazer

It is logical that suffering is part of the material creation, it is unavoidable as there is growth and decay. The process of birth shows that from immense suffering, new life is born. This becomes a guide to a possible spiritual state of mind.

Thus Logically the freedom from suffering is born of a higher intelligence.

It is a state of being above this existence, it is a state of being that is not part of this world.

We then ask why the greatest amongst us suffer the most. It is because they rise above this world and show us there is more to life than this matrix. This matrix is flawless in design, it allows us to develop spiritually.

Some suffering in this world is unavoidable, the vast majority of it is of our own making and state of mind.

That is why we are given the capacity of intelligence, if we worked together on what is important in life, then we have the ability to limit material suffering.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

In my unpopular opinion, god either can not stop suffering or god cares not about the suffering.

God could put an end to all suffering if He wanted to, but He would have to eliminate the material world He created.
If God is guilty of anything, it is that He created this material world in the first place because it is the source of all suffering.
But if God destroyed the material world, then nobody would have any of the joys that come with it either.

Another possibility is that God cares but knows the suffering reaps benefits in the long run.
And God knows this world is not forever and that there will be no suffering in the next life, for those who played their cards right.

 

[Trailblazer]

Also @Trailblazer
It is logical that suffering is part of the material creation, it is unavoidable as there is growth and decay.

You just read my mind.
See my next post.

 

[ChristineM]

Than who is the mystery man who gave me the funny?

@Mestemia is good people

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In my unpopular opinion, god either can not stop suffering or god cares not about the suffering.

Logically we can look at cause and effect. That there is purpose built into the entire process and we have power over cause and effect.

God, the source of intelligence has created a perfect balanced system. We are created on the fulcrum between light and darkness, or at the point of balance and our choices and actions help balance the system.

We have been given the choice to learn about our true nature and help maintain that balance. Logically it is up to us to find that balance within that system. At the moment our choices are tipping the balance towards a catastrophic correction.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

These are some of the issues in the world I can think we are facing:

1. Religious, and racial Fanaticism
2. Blind religious imitations
3. Taking dilusion and vain imagination as reality.
4. Lack of Justice and fairness.
5. Some are Extreme poor, and some are extremely wealthy and rich.
6. Difference in women and men's right.

Logically, if we have been guided by an all knowing intelligence, then answers to all those issue would have been given.

As I understand it, the answers have been given to all those issue.

Now the quandary, how does Logic and Reason assist others to find those answers?

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

@Mestemia is good people

Yep, I fully agree.

 

[firedragon]

I see Logical reasoning is required for truth to be found.

But your post is committing a logical fallacy. I think either you are not understanding this simple statement, or you are intentionally ignoring it.

If you understood what I said, you would refute it. If you didnt understand it, you would clarify what I am saying. But since you are just ignoring it and making some other vague statement, it is obvious you are ignoring it on purpose.

Thus, I think Tony, behind your outwardly show of character, you have another. I do not like to interact with dishonest people, and its too obvious in every single interaction. It seems like some of the Bahai's are too intent on proselytising, as ifs they are paid to do so. Not all, but some.

I will not be interacting with you any more. Ciao.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Brother, this is begging the question.

Ironically, that's an informal "LOGICAL" fallacy.

But your post is committing a logical fallacy. I think either you are not understanding this simple statement, or you are intentionally ignoring it.

If you understood what I said, you would refute it. If you didnt understand it, you would clarify what I am saying. But since you are just ignoring it and making some other vague statement, it is obvious you are ignoring it on purpose.

Thus, I think Tony, behind your outwardly show of character, you have another. I do not like to interact with dishonest people, and its too obvious in every single interaction. It seems like some of the Bahai's are too intent on proselytising, as ifs they are paid to do so. Not all, but some.

I will not be interacting with you any more. Ciao.

This deserves a fuller explanation. Logic is as only as good as the reasoning used.

The material senses are subject to error, they are not reliable. Logic tells us there is something greater than our limited senses, so I see there is a sacred power beyond the confines of the senses, that of the power of the rational mind. We are able to use the power of the soul over the senses and this is when we also need to use sound logic.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thus, I think Tony, behind your outwardly show of character, you have another. I do not like to interact with dishonest people, and its too obvious in every single interaction. It seems like some of the Bahai's are too intent on proselytising, as ifs they are paid to do so. Not all, but some.

Consider people can have time issues, only on a phone and wanting to give a reply so one does not think they are being ignored, so maybe I should never reply, until I have that time.

Then there are Saturday mornings when I have my Laptop and a small amount of time, like now

All the best firedragon, I will only offer you all the best of life health and faith. Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Eh?, evidence please

Is it, i have ever heard creation defined in logic, could you please walk me through the logical steps.

Would we? I see no reasons that a creative intelligence powerful enough to create our universe (if such a creator exists) should even give a hoot what happens to a single species out of several million species who inhabit a small, insignificant planet in a small insignificant solar system perched part way up a spiral arm of a smallish galaxy among hundreds of billions of other galaxies.

Wow, just wow. How? From a single book written by humans within the last few percent of humanities existence? I think not.

Ahh cart before the horse approach?

See my wow answer

But you just said we have the answers.

So why haven't we?

The storming of the capitol in DC, whats the logical answer to that?

Childhood leukaemia, whats the logical answer to that?

Unnecessary suffering, whats the logical answer to that?

I see all the answers are found in sound Reasoning, enlightened by logic.

The first step is to determine if a complete non exiting Intelligence, can create intelligence, how Logical is that reasoning?

Science is sound and logical way to show that intelligence can create and discover, whereas lack of intelligence does not create or discover.

That is Logical, is it not? That is sound reasoning, is it not?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So, exactly as I thought. You can't demonstrate that anything "supernatural" or "god-like" had any hand in any of it. Yours is the typical type of response, by the way. To just cite things that are obvious, but which have absolutely no correlation or connection to "God" in any way.

Much Reasoning and Logic can be put forward. That reasoning and Logic also indicates when offering something may not be a good idea.

I have followed your posts, my reasoning and logic indicate that no matter what I offer, you will choose to see it as you do. So at times its great to agree to disagree.

So a question, can a table make itself and know the craftsman? Can the painting paint itself and know the painter? In fact anything man creates, can it create itself and know the maker. Reason and Logic indicates to me they cannot make themselves, nor know the maker.

Reason and Logic thus tells me Creation has a source that we also can not know.

Your response to this will will most likely vindicate my initial statements, but I am happy to be proved very wrong. Regards Tony

 

[ChristineM]

I see all the answers are found in sound Reasoning, enlightened by logic.

The first step is to determine if a complete non exiting Intelligence, can create intelligence, how Logical is that reasoning?

Science is sound and logical way to show that intelligence can create and discover, whereas lack of intelligence does not create or discover.

That is Logical, is it not? That is sound reasoning, is it not?

Regards Tony

First step, what is a non existing intelligence?
So no, not logical
And it has repeatedly been shown that evolution creates intelligence so not only not logical but ignores facts that prove its not logical. Sounds more like confirmation bias than logic

Why does lack of intelligence not create? Assumption is not logic

No, neither are sound reasoning, or logical

 

[TransmutingSoul]

First step, what is a non existing intelligence?
So no, not logical
And it has repeatedly been shown that evolution creates intelligence so not only not logical but ignores facts that prove its not logical. Sounds more like confirmation bias than logic

Why does lack of intelligence not create? Assumption is not logic

No, neither are sound reasoning, or logical

What is the opposite of intelligence? that answers that question.

It is reasonable and logical, in my opinion, to see that intelligence does evolve. Creation is founded on Intelligence and just as the Sun gives light, creation gives intelligence and as we obtain more, the brighter we will shine.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

so.....you don't have access to Youtube?

Good reasoning and logic tells me much chaos is to be found on YouTube.

Regards Tony