Debate the Logic of a World Order.

[Spirit of Light]

I do not see that will happen either.

A world parliament will be elected by the governments of all nations who send representatives of that Nation, so all Nations still have their own government and still control their own affairs.

Also it will have to be a unity in diversity, not a unity of conformity.

Regards Tony

If that happens it will be UN just bigger.
Not sure that ever will happen

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But I am a bit pessimistic, and only see such happening after and if we do survive something a lot worse than pandemics.

This is the most likely short term reality, more convulsions yet to come.

At the same time there are encouraging signs that we are learning how to work together.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If that happens it will be UN just bigger.
Not sure that ever will happen

Maybe the UN with some teeth and actual authority.

Regards Tony

 

[exchemist]

This topic is dear to my heart, as this is what I live for, a day when as a citizen of the World we all work together for the common good for all humanity.

This is not about your faith verse my faith, or faith verse atheists.

In the big picture I see faith teaches about the possibility and inevitability of a united humanity and I would assume many people of no faith long for a day when they an live in peace with equal opportunities in life.

Way back in the 1800's, just as the world was considering the smallness of our part in the universe it was said that peace would only come in one way, that path is to the extent we choose to submit to given laws, that will need to be establish by a world tribunal.

So this is the wisdom to be considered and debated, is this what we need, will it be what we need?

"... The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny."

In this debate, even though this is a teaching of my faith, remember it will not be the Baha'i that will do this, if it is to happen. So will it and does it need to happen?

A world tribunal making laws for the whole of mankind would be a terrible idea. Fortunately, there is zero chance of that happening.

A quick glance at the politics of today around the world makes it plain that there is always tension between the efficiencies of common standards, rules and methods of governance on the one hand and, on the other, the need to keep governance local so that it is felt to be accountable to local people. This is why we have federal systems, divisions between central and local government, changing associations between nations and above them all, global forums whose deliberations are only advisory expressions of global opinion.

Rather than indulging utopian notions of globally administered peace and harmony, I think it better to keep in mind the words of Christ that: "My kingdom is not of this world."

 

[Spirit of Light]

Maybe the UN with some teeth and actual authority.

Regards Tony

As long they stay away from military force. But honestly i do not believe in government.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Rather than indulging utopian notions of globally administered peace and harmony, I think it better to keep in mind the words of Christ that: "My kingdom is not of this world."

Correct, rend unto caesar what is caesars.

Yet thy Kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven.

Such a quandary indeed as Christianity contains that potential.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think in searching for a path towards this world order, it is important to analyze humanity’s capacity to morally run government.
As it stands now, humanity uses government as a system of destruction, as we are immoral creatures. How then can a one world government come to be, and if it were to come to pass, how would it be good? Would it not be corrupted as it is now?
Government is made up of people. So I think in order to achieve a global government, humanity first must become moral creatures.
I think the moral choice right now would be to embrace an anarchist society. I think an anarchist society would help propagate morality among the world and people. It would at the very least eliminate the moral corruption that government causes.
As oxymoronic as this may seem, I think in order to achieve the Baha’i goal of a one world government, humanity first must become an anarchist society. Or at least a portion of humanity. Because there, humanity would become more moral creatures as generations pass. And future generations would have the capacity to know how to morally implement a world government.

I see our capacity to change will build the maturity required to govern with justice on a universal scale. I have seen that ability within the system implemented for Baha'i elections.

Yes we indeed have to embrace virtues and morality to enable this process to succeed.

I see that there will be an attempt to create an Antichrist governmental outlook, but it will not succeed, there is a majority that will not give up faith, it will not work.

It will because of this failure that humanity as a whole will turn back towards faith and search for the best it offers and that is when we will sit down at the table to elect a world parliament of Nations.

There is lots to happen in that entire process. I hope some things that have been foretold, are not part of the future, but I feel they might be.

Regards Tony

 

[Clara Tea]

This topic is dear to my heart, as this is what I live for, a day when as a citizen of the World we all work together for the common good for all humanity.

This is not about your faith verse my faith, or faith verse atheists.

In the big picture I see faith teaches about the possibility and inevitability of a united humanity and I would assume many people of no faith long for a day when they an live in peace with equal opportunities in life.

Way back in the 1800's, just as the world was considering the smallness of our part in the universe it was said that peace would only come in one way, that path is to the extent we choose to submit to given laws, that will need to be establish by a world tribunal.

So this is the wisdom to be considered and debated, is this what we need, will it be what we need?

"... The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny."

In this debate, even though this is a teaching of my faith, remember it will not be the Baha'i that will do this, if it is to happen. So will it and does it need to happen?

Satan uses deception. Satan masquerades as God. Satan convinces people that they will get joy and contentment if they follow his teachings. Then, when he has followers, Satan changes his rhetoric.

President George Herbert Walker Bush (daddy Bush) said that he wants a New World Order.

Many Christians oppose a new world order, citing references in the bible that say that it will be oppressive and bad. They talk about chips that will be implanted under the skin in the wrists or foreheads, and that, they say, has been warned about in the bible.

What New World Order?

The link (above) is about Bush Sr.'s New World Order.

When actually implemented, the New World Order is about spying on private phone calls of Americans (see information about this from Eric Snowden). The New World Order is about ravaging the environment (Bush called himself the Environmental President, but chastised other presidents for being "Ozone Bozos" when they tried to address the horrifying consequences of man's impact on Global Warming). Bush was allowing pollution and environmental damage (of God's environment) for profit (mammon). Bush loved mammon more than God, and he cut taxes for the rich, putting the burden on the Middle Class and increasing debt. As Vice President under Reagan, the two increased the 200 year old National Debt to 5 times as much (to clarify...multiplied 5 times).

The link above says that the rhetoric of a New World Order disappeared. Actually, it was being put in place but hidden.

We now have a civilization that is mired in debt, ignores the homeless, destroys the environment, and gives welfare to the super-wealthy.

The New World Order is about putting the entire world under the rule of just one person (a dictator). To this end, Afghanistan and Iraq were attacked (neither had dealings with terrorists), and W. Bush (Junior) made an attempt to declare war on Niger with falsely planted evidence (which Wilson refused to create, so W. Bush and Cheney outed Plame, his CIA wife).

The New World Order is akin to Nazism. It involves taking over the world and enslaving and spying on people.

The Illuminati (international group of wealthy people) have been working on the New World Order for some time.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Do you see that balance will be set by a Union of Nations?

Regards Tony

Hasn't the UN been trying to do this since 1945? Do you think the UN has been successful at achieving such a balance?

 

[Fool]

This topic is dear to my heart, as this is what I live for, a day when as a citizen of the World we all work together for the common good for all humanity.

This is not about your faith verse my faith, or faith verse atheists.

In the big picture I see faith teaches about the possibility and inevitability of a united humanity and I would assume many people of no faith long for a day when they an live in peace with equal opportunities in life.

Way back in the 1800's, just as the world was considering the smallness of our part in the universe it was said that peace would only come in one way, that path is to the extent we choose to submit to given laws, that will need to be establish by a world tribunal.

So this is the wisdom to be considered and debated, is this what we need, will it be what we need?

"... The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny."

In this debate, even though this is a teaching of my faith, remember it will not be the Baha'i that will do this, if it is to happen. So will it and does it need to happen?

there is already a world order running in the background but some selfishly only want there form of it to be the leader.


love is a mysterious thing, a fountain bubbling up to everlasting life.

 

[BilliardsBall]

This topic is dear to my heart, as this is what I live for, a day when as a citizen of the World we all work together for the common good for all humanity.

This is not about your faith verse my faith, or faith verse atheists.

In the big picture I see faith teaches about the possibility and inevitability of a united humanity and I would assume many people of no faith long for a day when they an live in peace with equal opportunities in life.

Way back in the 1800's, just as the world was considering the smallness of our part in the universe it was said that peace would only come in one way, that path is to the extent we choose to submit to given laws, that will need to be establish by a world tribunal.

So this is the wisdom to be considered and debated, is this what we need, will it be what we need?

"... The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny."

In this debate, even though this is a teaching of my faith, remember it will not be the Baha'i that will do this, if it is to happen. So will it and does it need to happen?

It seems to make good sense--one world, one Federation of Planet (!), no more armies, no more wars, no more currency arbitrage--yet the tendency will pull toward totalitarianism and the End, as the Bible teaches.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Satan uses deception. Satan masquerades as God. Satan convinces people that they will get joy and contentment if they follow his teachings. Then, when he has followers, Satan changes his rhetoric.

President George Herbert Walker Bush (daddy Bush) said that he wants a New World Order.

Many Christians oppose a new world order, citing references in the bible that say that it will be oppressive and bad. They talk about chips that will be implanted under the skin in the wrists or foreheads, and that, they say, has been warned about in the bible.

What New World Order?

The link (above) is about Bush Sr.'s New World Order.

When actually implemented, the New World Order is about spying on private phone calls of Americans (see information about this from Eric Snowden). The New World Order is about ravaging the environment (Bush called himself the Environmental President, but chastised other presidents for being "Ozone Bozos" when they tried to address the horrifying consequences of man's impact on Global Warming). Bush was allowing pollution and environmental damage (of God's environment) for profit (mammon). Bush loved mammon more than God, and he cut taxes for the rich, putting the burden on the Middle Class and increasing debt. As Vice President under Reagan, the two increased the 200 year old National Debt to 5 times as much (to clarify...multiplied 5 times).

The link above says that the rhetoric of a New World Order disappeared. Actually, it was being put in place but hidden.

We now have a civilization that is mired in debt, ignores the homeless, destroys the environment, and gives welfare to the super-wealthy.

The New World Order is about putting the entire world under the rule of just one person (a dictator). To this end, Afghanistan and Iraq were attacked (neither had dealings with terrorists), and W. Bush (Junior) made an attempt to declare war on Niger with falsely planted evidence (which Wilson refused to create, so W. Bush and Cheney outed Plame, his CIA wife).

The New World Order is akin to Nazism. It involves taking over the world and enslaving and spying on people.

The Illuminati (international group of wealthy people) have been working on the New World Order for some time.

This view has always amazed me.

It is interesting indeed that the very thing that may build Thy Kingdom Come on earth as it is in Heaven, is seen as evil.

Materialism is the evil, that is for sure and currently that is how the world is managed and what it is based on, but I see a union of Nations will be founded on the need to implement virtues and morality back into our way of life, it will be founded for the good and not evil.

All the best Clara

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hasn't the UN been trying to do this since 1945? Do you think the UN has been successful at achieving such a balance?

Yes and no, it is not founded on the required principles. I have another OP that to me explains why it will not succeed with its current mandates. It is suggested in that OP that faith given by God teaches itself, because it becomes the required standard we must aspire to and put into practice.

There has been a set of principles already given that such a body of people must be founded upon, if they are not implemented it will not work.

An Interesting fact not yet known by many Americans, is that the League of Nations ties back into a time when Abdul'baha was giving talks in America about how world peace must be achieved and the mandates required, the United Nations is housed in the very City that he prayed would become a centre for that peace.

Basically the United Nations has not been given the power, it's a toothless tiger, lots or roar and no action.

I think it will be the body that does carry on with the work, but it will be restructure with more powerful mandates, as the Nations will have to bow to its decisions and not veto voting.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

there is already a world order running in the background but some selfishly only want there form of it to be the leader.

love is a mysterious thing, a fountain bubbling up to everlasting life.

Yes indeed, it's current structure is not based on the required principles, even though the aim is lofty.

Thee are many wonderful individuals working for the UN, they have been compromised by National Interests.

Unbridled Nationalism is a cancer.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It seems to make good sense--one world, one Federation of Planet (!), no more armies, no more wars, no more currency arbitrage--yet the tendency will pull toward totalitarianism and the End, as the Bible teaches.

This age will not see us progress to the abolition of Armies, I see we have rejected the Most great peace offered in the Bible.

The end is not of this material world, the end is the beginning, all things made new.

Regards Tony

 

[Clara Tea]

I do not see how that would be possible, as all Nations would have to attend.

The League of Nations and then the United Nations were put together to achieve this outcome, but the willingness to hand over a level of power to a world body is yet to be implemented.

Also vetoing can not be allowed to happen, a stance must be recorded.

Regards Tony

With war crime charges hanging in the balance (torture camp for Iraqi prisoners), President W. Bush rejected the notion of a world court at the Hague. Yet, it was the Hague that tried the Nazis of WWII.

A world court would be handy to deal with international terrorists, international drug pushers, etc.

President Bill Clinton's "Drug Tsar" was supposed to clean up drug manufacturing and selling abroad. Instead, he was a drug pusher who shielded his illegal and covert activities smuggling narcotics to the United States (thus enriching the Mediene Drug Cartel of Colombia).

The US essentially handed a lot of power to the UN, only to realize that it outvoted them on several issues (notably helping Israel). The result was retraction from the UN (until it was found that they were needed). Yet, the massive funding from the United States keeps anyone from complaining.

 

[Clara Tea]

This age will not see us progress to the abolition of Armies, I see we have rejected the Most great peace offered in the Bible.

The end is not of this material world, the end is the beginning, all things made new.

Regards Tony

Sadly, humans cannot be on the honor system (no armies, no police, no judges, no courtroom, no jails). The best we can do is remove criminals from society.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The US essentially handed a lot of power to the UN, only to realize that it outvoted them on several issues (notably helping Israel). The result was retraction from the UN (until it was found that they were needed). Yet, the massive funding from the United States keeps anyone from complaining.

Yes this is a big an important aspect. It was foretold that America would take the leading role and that motives not in tune with virtue and morality, warned against. There are some very good guidelines, that are minimum requirements, if a world body is to work.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sadly, humans cannot be on the honor system (no armies, no police, no judges, no courtroom, no jails). The best we can do is remove criminals from society.

I hold hope that we can rise to the virtue and morality required, after all we are created in God's Image, that potential is. Latent within us, we can bring it out.

Regards Tony

 

[GardenLady]

At the same time there are encouraging signs that we are learning how to work together.

So you aren't in the US, huh? It's so barking crazy here I'm going to file for Irish citizenship once they open the Foreign Birth Registry Office (closed since the pandemic started).