Covid vaccine. Who took it, who didn't?

[Quagmire]

I've been thinking of just posting any thread's I make in a debate forum. It seems to always end up that way lol

Most threads do. To be honest, sometimes I'm not even sure why we have a discussion forum.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

how can we have confidence in the vaccine that is currently being promoted?

Probably all the studies that have been done on them.

 

[Deeje]

Probably all the studies that have been done on them.

Who are the studies done by? The ones who produce the vaccines? Messing with people's immune systems without long term effects being part of the studies is a bit premature for me.

I am not telling people that they shouldn't take the vaccine...just that I am going to hold off for now.

 

[Quagmire]

It was a simple question.

Yeah, kinda was.

 

[Trailblazer]

Okay first off, this thread isn't in a debate forum it's in a discussion forum.

If you want to pick apart people's posts, you should do it in a thread that's designed for that.

Fair enough, but the same applies to anyone on this thread who has disagreed with someone else, and there are plenty of examples of that on this thread. What starts as a discussion can become heated, especially if people have strong opinions. I do not want to debate anyone or convince anyone, I just want a right to my own opinion, but since I am in the minority my opinion gets trampled on.

Secondly, that policy has been in effect for over a year. You're a part of this community. If you disagree with the policy, if you think it's outdated, needs to be revised, whatever, you would need to go start a thread in Site Feedback to that effect.

Just spontaneously deciding it's a bad policy because it happens to be inconvenient for you personally at the moment isn't going to cut it.

With all due respect, I was not involved in these discussions on the vaccines until very recently, so I did not know about the policy till recently. Would I have anything to say about it?

We can't, that was my point.

But who is willing to look at it? That was my point. I am not saying I agree just because I watched one video, only that I am considering it.

I never said I knew any of that. I'm just saying, you don't know what his motives are either.

I did not say I did. I had an impression but I would have to learn more in order to form an opinion.

Just because he's technically qualified to have an opinion, it doesn't automatically follow that he's using his qualifications responsibly.

No, it does not mean that, but the same can be said for other vaccine experts.

There's more at stake here than your health.

I never said that I only valued my health, but I cannot control other people’s health, only my own. I do not believe mass vaccinations are the best long-term solution to this pandemic, but If I am wrong we’ll find out eventually.

Our society can't afford to be on lockdown much longer. A lot of the damage that's already been done may be a repairable.

We cannot go back and do this over again differently. I agree we cannot continue with the lockdown much longer and if the vaccinations are the way to solve that problem I am all for it. I don’t believe they are good for individual’s health but it is not my choice what people do with their bodies. People are going to do what they believe is best for them at the time according to the information they have in order to accomplish what is important for them.

I don't have blind faith in this vaccine.
I certainly don't have blind faith in the mainstream medical community or big pharma: as a matter of fact I have a pretty strong distrust for both of these institutions, and with good personal reason.

Ditto on that regarding the mainstream medical community, and with good personal reasons.

I realize there are risks to this vaccine, probably many that we aren't even aware of yet.

But, as things stand, looking at the big picture, risks need to be taken. And all things considered I think the risks are small here.

I agree that risks need to be taken for the good of the whole society, I am just not sure that mass vaccinations are the best solution for individuals or for society; and since such a campaign had never been undertaken in modern times, the so-called experts do not know that either, which was good point that was made in the video. This vaccine campaign is just one big experiment that was entered into rather impulsively because nobody had any other solutions after the virus was raging out of control.

As a senior member of my society I feel a responsibility to be one of the people taking the risks, whatever risks there are.

I admire your motive of sacrifice but I don’t see how you taking the vaccine is going to make a contribution.

If you would rather sit on the sidelines and see what happens to the rest of us before taking it yourself, you certainly have that option.

There are plenty of people who want the vaccine so I am not needed as a test subject. I will probably never get the vaccine unless I have to get it for a reason. I have never taken a vaccine in my life and I have never been sick with anything that people are vaccinated for. In fact I very rarely get sick at all even though I worked in an office for 44 years, where people all around me were sick all the time. The man in the video made a very good point about the immune system and how it works. It is needed for more than fighting off the Covid-19 virus.

 

[Quagmire]

Fair enough, but the same applies to anyone on this thread who has disagreed with someone else, and there are plenty of examples of that on this thread. What starts as a discussion can become heated, especially if people have strong opinions. I do not want to debate anyone or convince anyone, I just want a right to my own opinion, but since I am in the minority my opinion gets trampled on.

I only started reading this thread from the point at which I posted in it.

If you actually wanted to start a debate thread based on the video, it would probably be okay.

I would recommend posting the op in site feedback first though to run it by the rest of the staff. It may or may not be a policy violation, we would have to get consensus one way or the other.

With all due respect, I was not involved in these discussions on the vaccines until very recently, so I did not know about the policy till recently. Would I have anything to say about it?

Of course. Every member has a say in how things are run here, by which I mean we do pay attention to suggestions that members make.

But who is willing to look at it? That was my point. I am not saying I agree just because I watched one video, only that I am considering it.

I watched 10 minutes of it. I'll probably watch the rest of it at some point.

I did not say I did. I had an impression but I would have to learn more in order to form an opinion.

No, it does not mean that, but the same can be said for other vaccine experts.

I never said that I only valued my health, but I cannot control other people’s health, only my own. I do not believe mass vaccinations are the best long-term solution to this pandemic, but If I am wrong we’ll find out eventually.

We cannot go back and do this over again differently. I agree we cannot continue with the lockdown much longer and if the vaccinations are the way to solve that problem I am all for it. I don’t believe they are good for individual’s health but it is not my choice what people do with their bodies. People are going to do what they believe is best for them at the time according to the information they have in order to accomplish what is important for them.

Ditto on that regarding the mainstream medical community, and with good personal reasons.

I agree that risks need to be taken for the good of the whole society, I am just not sure that mass vaccinations are the best solution for individuals or for society; and since such a campaign had never been undertaken in modern times, the so-called experts do not know that either, which was good point that was made in the video. This vaccine campaign is just one big experiment that was entered into rather impulsively because nobody had any other solutions after the virus was raging out of control.

I admire your motive of sacrifice but I don’t see how you taking the vaccine is going to make a contribution.

There are plenty of people who want the vaccine so I am not needed as a test subject. I will probably never get the vaccine unless I have to get it for a reason. I have never taken a vaccine in my life and I have never been sick with anything that people are vaccinated for. In fact I very rarely get sick at all even though I worked in an office for 44 years, where people all around me were sick all the time. The man in the video made a very good point about the immune system and how it works. It is needed for more than fighting off the Covid-19 virus.

Like I said I'll most likely watch the video all the way through at some point.

But tbh, 5 minutes into it my BS meter started going off. Something about the way it was being presented. Had kind of an info-mercial feel to it, like somebody was trying to sell me something.

Still, I'll try to put that to the side and give it another look.

 

[stvdv]

I've never had polio, diphtheria, tetanus, Hep A or Hep B, rubella, or whooping cough. I had mumps and measles and maybe chicken pox as a kid, 60 years ago. (Gee, I wonder why?) I'm taking my chances with this poke.

That what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.... seems to have worked for you, being around for more than 60 years

When I was in India I got HepA all the time. Did not get me stronger, but back in Holland, I don't get this type if diseases

 

[Mock Turtle]

We all know how the virus is transmitted. Given that I am not in contact with anyone, how can I get the virus? Why do I need the shot to protect me from something that cannot happen. That is like wearing a seat belt around the house in case I might have a car accident. I am being rational.

If I decide to start engaging in activities outside the house where I come into contact with people then I will reassess. If I cared about those activities I would probably get the vaccine now, but I do not give a twit about the activities most people care about, they are boring to me.

Another thing is that this virus won't be around forever, so I can wait it out. Unlike most people, I am in no hurry to "get back to normal life" because I never had a normal life to begin with.

Well I can understand your position but there is always the unexpected, and for me it still makes more sense to have the vaccine than not.

 

[stvdv]

I'm also going to remind you that the covid misinformation policy is still in effect, and posting misinformation about the vaccine --- and I think this qualifies --- is covered by that policy.

IMO this does not fall under misinformation. He is a scientist, and as a scientist myself, I think it would be really bad if scientists are forced, or stop looking at other (all) angles. And this is exactly what this scientist does.

Very vauable to not dismiss it, unless you want to undermine science and freedom to think, which is important in science
@stvdvRF

 

[Trailblazer]

Well I can understand your position but there is always the unexpected, and for me it still makes more sense to have the vaccine than not.

If it makes sense for you I think you should get it.

 

[Mock Turtle]

If it makes sense for you I think you should get it.

Oh, I am - second shot in a few days.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh, I am - second shot in a few days.

Great, they say that getting the second shot is really important to get the full immunity.

 

[Altfish]

And I could get in an auto accident and get killed next time I go out.
If I lived in fear of everything that might happen I might as well stop living.

Time will tell.

It is your ability to pass it on and harm others, You can do what you like with your own body.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Great, they say that getting the second shot is really important to get the full immunity.

Well hopefully the vaccines will do a good enough job of returning us to normality. I've probably mentioned before that the virus doesn't concern me unduly, apart from not really knowing how it might affect me, and I just feel it my duty to get vaccinated so as to bring this thing to an end. Of course, with all the mutations going on, this is likely to take longer than expected and we can't be sure how long we will have to live with some uncertainties. It sure is something that I wouldn't have predicted, but just remember the 1918 pandemic when they had no chance to produce a vaccine so quickly, and where at least 50 million died. No progress?

 

[RestlessSoul]

Yes, I believe that the Koran updated the New Testament. I was going to include the Koran but I was trying to be brief and skip that step because the Writings of Baha'u'llah updated both the New Testament and the Koran. When I say updated I mean shed new light on and renew, I do not mean do away with or replace.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

The same applies to the scriptures of all the great world religions.

"Manuscripts do not burn" - Mikhael Bulgakov. This became a popular saying in Soviet Russia, particularly among artists and writers fearing censorship or worse.

In the novel The Master and Margarita, the character known only as 'the master' tries to burn the manuscript of his own novel, to escape the wrath of the Soviet authorities. But the manuscript survives, and at the end of Bulgakov's novel it is revealed to the fictional character, the master, that Christ has read his novel and approved of it.

Bulgakov finished working on his novel shortly before his death in 1940, but it wasn't published until 1963. It has remained in print ever since, and been translated into many languages. So maybe Bulgakov was onto something.

The novel is a work of fiction, but I think that's where the deepest truths are often found. Artists are often touched by the hands of the divine; characterised by the Greeks as a visit from the Muses.

Manuscripts Do Not Burn is also the title of a 2014 Iranian movie (banned in Iran), but I haven't seen that yet.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

To those who answered "no," I'm curious: have you thought about the fact that more than 365 MILLION shots have been given around the world, and we're hearing, what, next-to-nothing about bad effects, and a lot about the fact that the vaccines appear super-effective in preventing serious illness and death?

Just curious...

 

[ratiocinator]

I am posting this video again so people can watch it.

Then make sure you google this guy and read the various debunking and fact-checking articles about him, for example: Mass Covid-19 vaccination will not lead to ‘out of control’ variants

I'm also curious - you say you're not a medical expert (and Bossche is a vet, rather than a medic) or in the biological sciences so why not accept the overwhelming consensus of the actual experts? Also, given that there are multiple different dissenting voices, why choose this one? If you decide you can't rely on the consensus of experts in a field that you are not quantified to assess for yourself, then surely you might as well take a blind guess? You're almost bound to find somebody on the internet that will 'support' it, whatever it is.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

To those who answered "no," I'm curious: have you thought about the fact that more than 365 MILLION shots have been given around the world, and we're hearing, what, next-to-nothing about bad effects, and a lot about the fact that the vaccines appear super-effective in preventing serious illness and death?

Just curious...

For me, it has nothing to do with that. The amount of deaths does not motivate me to take the vaccine. If I was motivated to get medical treatment just by how many people suffer from it, I'd be taking a boatload. If I didn't judge for myself whether I want to take the vaccine and take it because of scientists and deaths (which no doctor would suggest to go off of), I could make the wrong judgment (since I'm not a doctor) and do more harm than good. Likewise, I have to think about my own situation. Why would I take something when the level of risk is low? It's not good to play rush and roulette as just in case. Go to the doctor and see if you can take "any" medicine just in case.

Another thing, why keep giving people evidence of the efficiency and deaths?

The only people I can understand who want to get the vaccine are a. those who work with COVID patients or their loved ones with it b. they live in a heavy population c. they don't have medical issues

and d. they made a sound decision for "themselves" to take it not based on scientists and doctors who "do not " know them (the scientists and doctors are generalizing the whole population).

One day people would treat unvaccinated people as if they were blacks-of-the-day. It's coersion...and decisions shouldn't be based on that nor guilt nor "scientific" peer pressure. It should be informed, it should go by your situation, it should go by your level of risk, and so forth.

It's fine to take the vaccine "just in case" you may have COVID. To me, I'm not a just-in-case person unless it's a bomb or something. I rather literally go on facts/actualities. I AM affected, so I may take it. I AM asymptomatic, so I may take it. Not I COULD be... not Maybe, nothing like that-it's peer coercion and RF is a sign of it.

The only medical reason I can think of for not taking it is that multiple shots came out too fast. If I'm in a life and death scenario or my illness is getting worse, if I decided to, I could go on a clinical trial or test a drug(s) just in case. This is kind of like a clinical trial, and I don't like the idea that I would be treated as a "winner" for taking the vaccine as if I AM affecting others because I could have COVID.

Of course, not many people would read this nor accept these reasons (another reason people don't take the vaccine, they're getting spit on for their decisions and getting fussed at for it), but there it is.

 

[Quagmire]

IMO this does not fall under misinformation.
@stvdvRF

That doesn't matter.

For the sake of our policy or to me personally, I mean.

 

[stvdv]

That doesn't matter.

It matters to me