Covid vaccine. Who took it, who didn't?

[Quagmire]

It matters to me

Super.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

*MOD POST* Moved to general debates. *MOD POST*

 

[Polymath257]

Too many drugs have latent side effects that pop up years later. There are all kinds of law suits for just that.
However any drug can/will have a side effects. The severity is what matters.

And so it is always a balance between the benefits and the risks.

In this case, we have the balance between possible risks of a new vaccine and the known risk of this virus and the known ability of the vaccines to reduce the spread of this virus. So the benefits will be things like having an economy again, being able to meet loved ones, and being able to travel.

We already know this virus has long term side effects, even on those who have 'moderate' illness from it. The 'long haulers' are even benefited by the virus.

I've had similar choices in my life. I have severe asthma. When the 'new' asthma drugs came out in the early 80's, it was almost miraculous how much better I felt. The ones that came out later were even better for treating the asthma. Did I know at the time what the long term consequences of these meds would be? No. Nobody did. But they meant that I would *live* to experience those consequences. Which is better than NOT living to experience the consequences.

It was certainly *possible* for these meds to mean that I would have liver cancer by now. i don't. And there is no evidence that they cause such. But when I started them, nobody knew that.

i feel this is similar. Our economy has been shut down because of this virus. Over half a million people have died in this country. many survivors have long term health issues. So I compare the ability to prevent even MORE damage to the risk that this virus will have unpleasant after effect in a decade. In my mind, there is no real question: get the vaccine and have *fewer* side effects that you would if you don't.

 

[Trailblazer]

It is your ability to pass it on and harm others, You can do what you like with your own body.

I can do what I like with my own body, period, unless the government mandates vaccines.
Why hasn't the government done that yet? Because they know it is not their right to tell people what to do with their bodies, and it is not the right of anyone on this forum to do that either, either directly or indirectly.

I cannot pass it on to others because I don't have it and because I don't come into contact with others.
Why are people telling me I should take this vaccine? I consider this harassment especially after I have made my position clear.
Do you see me telling anyone NOT to get the vaccine? No, anyone who wants the vaccine should get the vaccine.

Trying to make this a moral issue won't work. People who got the vaccine and are out there interacting with other people have a chance of spreading the virus whereas I don't, locked up in my own house.

Can someone who has been vaccinated for COVID spread the disease?

The vaccine is designed to stop the virus from making you sick. We don’t know yet if the vaccine will stop you from spreading the virus. We should continue to wear masks, social distance, and wash hands after we’ve been vaccinated. (source – Vanderbilt University Medical Center) (1.19.20)

What We Know and What We’re Still Learning

• We know that COVID-19 vaccines are effective at preventing COVID-19 disease, especially severe illness and death.
  • We’re still learning how effective the vaccines are against variants of the virus that causes COVID-19. Early data show the vaccines may work against some variants but could be less effective against others.
• We know that other prevention steps help stop the spread of COVID-19, and that these steps are still important, even as vaccines are being distributed.
  • We’re still learning how well COVID-19 vaccines keep people from spreading the disease.
  • Early data show that the vaccines may help keep people from spreading COVID-19, but we are learning more as more people get vaccinated.
• We’re still learning how long COVID-19 vaccines can protect people.
• As we know more, CDC will continue to update our recommendations for both vaccinated and unvaccinated people.

Until we know more about those questions, everyone — even people who’ve had their vaccines — should continue taking steps to protect themselves and others when recommended.

Key Points

• The risks of SARS-CoV-2 infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus. Vaccinated people could potentially still get COVID-19 and spread it to others. However, the benefits of relaxing some measures such as testing and self-quarantine requirements for travelers, post-exposure quarantine requirements and reducing social isolation may outweigh the residual risk of fully vaccinated people becoming ill with COVID-19 or transmitting the virus to others.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

 

[savagewind]

I took it but I can't say that I trust it. But, I trusted that I will not get sick from it or worse, die.

 

[We Never Know]

And so it is always a balance between the benefits and the risks.

In this case, we have the balance between possible risks of a new vaccine and the known risk of this virus and the known ability of the vaccines to reduce the spread of this virus. So the benefits will be things like having an economy again, being able to meet loved ones, and being able to travel.

We already know this virus has long term side effects, even on those who have 'moderate' illness from it. The 'long haulers' are even benefited by the virus.

I've had similar choices in my life. I have severe asthma. When the 'new' asthma drugs came out in the early 80's, it was almost miraculous how much better I felt. The ones that came out later were even better for treating the asthma. Did I know at the time what the long term consequences of these meds would be? No. Nobody did. But they meant that I would *live* to experience those consequences. Which is better than NOT living to experience the consequences.

It was certainly *possible* for these meds to mean that I would have liver cancer by now. i don't. And there is no evidence that they cause such. But when I started them, nobody knew that.

i feel this is similar. Our economy has been shut down because of this virus. Over half a million people have died in this country. many survivors have long term health issues. So I compare the ability to prevent even MORE damage to the risk that this virus will have unpleasant after effect in a decade. In my mind, there is no real question: get the vaccine and have *fewer* side effects that you would if you don't.

Near everything has pros and cons. I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't get the vaccine.
I myself have chose not to get it as of yet because I don't think enough study has been done on them. But that's me.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well hopefully the vaccines will do a good enough job of returning us to normality.

I hope whatever is done will help people get back to work so the economy recovers because people have to live and have their basic needs met. However, people do not need all the things they "believe" they need, they just want them. I have no interest in returning to what is considered "normal" by most people as I believe that this world and the way people are/were living needs a complete overhaul.

Of course, with all the mutations going on, this is likely to take longer than expected and we can't be sure how long we will have to live with some uncertainties.

I think it is going to be a very long time. People "believe" that the vaccines are a panacea, but I don't think that is what will prove to be the case. Why, in spite of the fact that so many people have been fully vaccinated in the United States are cases going up? Time will tell.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I’ve had the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine and have the second dose next week. I’m a health worker on the frontline of caring for people in the community. Its vital I have been vaccinated and I trust the science behind it.

 

[We Never Know]

I’ve had the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine and have the second dose next week. I’m a health worker on the frontline of caring for people in the community. Its vital I have been vaccinated and I trust the science behind it.

If I remember correctly you said your are a physician. If I also remember correctly since Dec 2020 the CDC recommends that the first supplies of covid vaccine be given to healthcare personnel.

Was there a reason why its taken so long for you to get the vaccine?

 

[Vinayaka]

I’ve had the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine and have the second dose next week. I’m a health worker on the frontline of caring for people in the community. Its vital I have been vaccinated and I trust the science behind it.

What's the situation in New Zealand with regard to Covid deniers and antivaxxers?

 

[We Never Know]

And so it is always a balance between the benefits and the risks.

In this case, we have the balance between possible risks of a new vaccine and the known risk of this virus and the known ability of the vaccines to reduce the spread of this virus. So the benefits will be things like having an economy again, being able to meet loved ones, and being able to travel.

We already know this virus has long term side effects, even on those who have 'moderate' illness from it. The 'long haulers' are even benefited by the virus.

I've had similar choices in my life. I have severe asthma. When the 'new' asthma drugs came out in the early 80's, it was almost miraculous how much better I felt. The ones that came out later were even better for treating the asthma. Did I know at the time what the long term consequences of these meds would be? No. Nobody did. But they meant that I would *live* to experience those consequences. Which is better than NOT living to experience the consequences.

It was certainly *possible* for these meds to mean that I would have liver cancer by now. i don't. And there is no evidence that they cause such. But when I started them, nobody knew that.

i feel this is similar. Our economy has been shut down because of this virus. Over half a million people have died in this country. many survivors have long term health issues. So I compare the ability to prevent even MORE damage to the risk that this virus will have unpleasant after effect in a decade. In my mind, there is no real question: get the vaccine and have *fewer* side effects that you would if you don't.

In a sense, everything effects everyone differently.
I could get covid tomorrow and die in two weeks or I could get the vaccine, avoid covid and in 3-4 years a severe side effect could effect me and I could live miserably for the next 20 years.
Both are possibilities.

I don't work out in public. I don't go out into the public much. I'm around horses more than people. Those 3 things also affected my choice on whether or not to take the vaccine

 

[Trailblazer]

I’ve had the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine and have the second dose next week. I’m a health worker on the frontline of caring for people in the community. Its vital I have been vaccinated and I trust the science behind it.

I am glad to hear you got the vaccine. It certainly is vital that you get the vaccine given your particular situation.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't work out in public. I don't go out into the public much. I'm around horses more than people. Those 3 things also affected my choice on whether or not to take the vaccine

I don't work out in public. I don't go out into the public much. I'm around cats more than people. Those 3 things also affected my choice on whether or not to take the vaccine.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm also curious - you say you're not a medical expert (and Bossche is a vet, rather than a medic) or in the biological sciences so why not accept the overwhelming consensus of the actual experts? Also, given that there are multiple different dissenting voices, why choose this one?

I have not chosen anything, I just like to look at all the information before making a choice, not just one side.

 

[Trailblazer]

To those who answered "no," I'm curious: have you thought about the fact that more than 365 MILLION shots have been given around the world, and we're hearing, what, next-to-nothing about bad effects, and a lot about the fact that the vaccines appear super-effective in preventing serious illness and death?

Just curious...

All people are not motivated by the same things.
I am not concerned about the side effects of the vaccine, I am concerned about the known and unknown effects.
It is a tradeoff. I do not want my cells reprogrammed to fight off the virus "just in case" I might get the virus.
I am not worried about preventing serious illness or death because I am not exposed to anyone whereby I could catch the virus.
If I was, that would be a reason to rethink my decision.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

It's a patriotic duty to one's country (and planet) to take the vaccine to protect one's neighbor, just as it is one's duty to go to war to protect them if needed, whatever the risk to himself. Imagine a potential recruit or draftee taking the position that, "It's my body and I'll decide what's best for it. Your fears don't trump mine. Mine trump yours"

Just how is a vaccine refuser different from a draft dodger making a decision to protect himself when those around him need him to take a risk for them?

 

[Regiomontanus]

It's a patriotic duty to one's country (and planet) to take the vaccine to protect one's neighbor, just as it is one's duty to go to war to protect them if needed, whatever the risk to himself. Imagine a potential recruit or draftee taking the position that, "It's my body and I'll decide what's best for it. Your fears don't trump mine. Mine trump yours"

Just how is a vaccine refuser different from a draft dodger making a decision to protect himself when those around him need him to take a risk for them?

I agree with you that one should get a vaccine to help protect their neighbors. But patriotism has nothing to do with it - love should be the reason. In either case, I see this as nothing like taking up arms to kill one person over another.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Dawnofhope]

If I remember correctly you said your are a physician. If I also remember correctly since Dec 2020 the CDC recommends that the first supplies of covid vaccine be given to healthcare personnel.

Was there a reason why its taken so long for you to get the vaccine?

I live in New Zealand where we have a population of 5 million people and so far 26 COVID deaths since the beginning of last year. For the most part we have managed to keep COVID out of the community and when it emerges we manage to contain it with effective public health measures. So while the roll out of the vaccine has been relatively slow here compared to some other countries our lives are relatively normal.

 

[Dawnofhope]

What's the situation in New Zealand with regard to Covid deniers and antivaxxers?

There is a relatively small proportion of the population who are anti-vaccination. We're focusing on getting everyone we can vaccinated over the coming months. If we can get 90 - 95 % of the population vaccinated, its will be enough to contain the virus.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

All people are not motivated by the same things.
I am not concerned about the side effects of the vaccine, I am concerned about the known and unknown effects.
It is a tradeoff. I do not want my cells reprogrammed to fight off the virus "just in case" I might get the virus.
I am not worried about preventing serious illness or death because I am not exposed to anyone whereby I could catch the virus.
If I was, that would be a reason to rethink my decision.

Fascinating. The "known effects" are, in general:

• prevent serious illness and death
• the occasional slight fever
• a bit of pain at the injection site
• a headache

I can't say anything about unknown effects because, well, because there haven't been any (over close to 400 million tests).

As to "reprogramming your cells," no that's not what happens. Your cells are already "programmed" to generate proteins to counter any new and unrecognized antigen that they encounter. So the vaccine provides a bit of such an antigen (enough for your cells to recognize but not sicken you), so that if you encounter the virus, your body will be ready to fight it off. Easy-peasy!

And if you never, ever encounter anybody who has ever met anybody else outside your family group, you may be right not to worry -- but I've never known anybody like that, except those held in solitary confinement in prison.