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Featured A challenge to all Christians

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Harikrish, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    No, God told them that if they ate from the tree of kog&e, they'd die the same day. Which they didn't. So that won't work.

    There's no hint that they were going to be immortal in the story ─ only of God's unambiguous determination to prevent them doing so lest they become like him.

    And the story gives no hint that 'death entered the world' at this time. Instead, God's threat ─ not only die, but die the same day ─ regarding the tree of kog&e makes no sense unless death were already a given. Otherwise Adam and Eve would have replied, "Die? What on earth does that mean? What are you talking about?" But they didn't.
    That appears to borrow from the Mesopotamian tradition of attributing extraordinary lifespans to legendary heroes of the past, (such as their king-lists show).
     
  2. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    Actually... no (not to mention that you haven't given any scriptural support so it remains an opinion)

    FACT: Adam named all the animals. I would venture that on just that one point, Adam would be smarter than most people.

    All in context. Gen 1 "Let us make man in our image and in our likeness". Therefore, they were already like God. They didn't need to know what evil was. So your point is mute.

    Again... God didn't sin. The serpent was a liar and the best lie is the one that LOOKS like the original.

    Your point about death is mute also. Plants are alive and cease living when they are eaten. Your definition of sin is faulty
     
  3. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    They could have seen animals die and known about death. Humans were the only ones made in God's image, They were/are special. And if a day only meant our day, sunset to sunset, and the only light God created was sunlight, how is it there was light on the first day but no Sun until days later? So by the same reasoning a day may have more than the meaning sunset to sunset. A day in heaven could have been 1,000 years just as Peter describes. Was it fair that Adam and Eve didn't know a day was 1,000 years? You didn't see them complaining did you, or say to God, Kill me now, kill me now, I don't wanna live 1,000 years.
     
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  4. Harikrish

    Harikrish Active Member

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    We leave the heavy lifting to scriptures. Before it was single verse with 5 pages of commentary. Today it's 5 pages of scriptures with a single page for unity of message. Who are the faithfuls here?
     
  5. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    You could be faithful to presenting errors either way. If that's all you have what choice do you have?
     
  6. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Aren't you going a little too far on what is just a teaching parable about autonomous consciousness, duality, and responsibility?

    *
     
  7. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Not however to the extent that God made them immortal; if they were immortal then the fruit of a tree couldn't kill them, any more than it could kill God.

    Nowhere is it suggested that they were immortal. In 3:22-3 it says clearly that they were not.

    Further, if animals were already dying (as grass, and their cells, and their food were dying), then death had already 'entered the world'. Which of course it had ─ even in stories, it's innate in complex life.
    Sloppy thinking on the authors' part.
    The story says nothing of the kind. Once again you're inventing things.
    In the story they aren't in heaven. They're on earth, near the sources of the Tigris, the Euphrates, the Gihon and the Pishon.

    The days on earth, even in stories, are 24 hours long.
     
  8. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Immortal, never dying unless they ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge. Maybe they didn't know about death. Once they ate from the tree of knowledge they began to find out though. End of discussion, just going round and round..
     
  9. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    Satan is NOT the serpent in Genesis. It tells us this serpent is part of the earth creation.

    Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which YHVH ELOHIYM had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

    This is confirmed by Genesis 3:14.

    Gen 3:14 And YHVH Elohiym said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

    Thus, per Gen 3:14 - a REAL snake, - not Satan. That Satan idea came from a different religion many-many years after Jesus was dead.

    Serpent is derived from the Latin serpens which means a variety of low crawling creatures, and snakes. So they could be implying he lost his short legs and became a regular snake slithering on the ground forever.

    However - more interesting to me, - is the fact that the word also means Sorcerers.

    Do we have a representative of OTHER non-YHVH people on the earth?

    Did a Pagan Serpent-Sorcerer try to entice YHVH's first followers away from him?

    Does the story tell us he was turned into a snake for his troubles? Or just called a slimy snake for his actions? o_O:D

    *
     
  10. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    No God did not say in/on that day they eat of the tree they would die.
    God said for in the day that you eat of it you shalt surely die.
    God did not say when they would die.only in the day they eat of it they would surely die.how can that be seeing Adam lived 930 years.

    God told Adam --> "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, You shalt not eat of it: for in the day that you eatest thereof thou shalt surely die"

    God said nothing about dieing that self same day.
    God said for in the day you eat of it, you shalt surely die.
    In the day that Adam and Eve eat of the tree, that started the process of them dieing.
    Common Sense Would tell you, that God did not mean that self same day Adam and Eve would die. Adam lived 930 years, Therefore God did not mean that same day they eat of the tree they would die.
    But over a process of time they would die.

    And you call yourself a scholar and you can't even figure that out What kind of scholar are you. That you can not figure things out that are so simple.
     
  11. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    The text says nothing of the kind. That's your own addition.
     
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  12. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    You still haven't said what those two trees stood to Represent.
     
  13. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I am wondering why the ^ above ^ post is so long when it can be easier to reply to a shorter posting.

    No, God did Not lie because Adam and Eve died within that ' thousand year ' day time frame.
    Please notice Genesis 5:5 and Genesis 5:27.

    Mortal Adam and Eve were NEVER offered immortality, but offered 'everlasting life on Earth if they obeyed God'.
    In other words, they could live forever on Earth (No where else) if they obeyed God and would Not break God's Law.

    Before breaking God's Law A&E only knew or had knowledge of life.
    After breaking of God's Law they would come to know the knowledge of death.
    Adam ' returned ' back to where he came from the dust of the ground as per Genesis 3:19
     
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  14. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    ......and to me on a 'happy note' I like reading that mankind will see the return of the ' tree of life ' once again on Earth as mentioned at Revelation 22:2, and that the leaves from the tree of life will be for the healing of earth's nations.
    That is why we are invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come. Come and bring healing benefits to earth's nations during Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth.
     
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  15. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I'd like to take the liberty to comment that to me the 'tree of life' stood for 'everlasting life on Earth'.
    Everlasting life on Earth as long as one did Not break God's Law.
    The 'tree of knowledge of good and bad' stood for the Law of the Land.
    It was as if God put up a No trespassing sign on His tree. (perhaps because that tree was like poison /the death penalty).
    Adam and Eve only knew life, or had knowledge of life, but by breaking God's Law they gained knowledge of death.
    By breaking the Law it was as if Adam was taking the Law out of God's hands and placing the Law into man's hands.
    Thus, Adam set up People Rule as superior to God's Rule. Mankind's history now shows man's law can't bring Peace on Earth.
     
  16. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    First of all, a parable is an illustration or a story and Not a puzzle.
    For example: the parable or the story about the neighborly good Samaritan was a word picture story, or illustrative story, so that we can remember that we should broaden out in showing love, or widen out in showing love to someone in distress.
    Secondly, Jesus does explain or expound to his follower about his illustrations as per Mark 4:34; Matthew 13:36.
     
  17. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    You have there two trees, The tree of Life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    Satan the Serpent likes to mix good words with evil words, making evil words seem good, As he did with Eve. Had Eve rightly divided the word of Truth from the evil words of Satan.
    Therefore Satan Repsents the tree of good and evil.
    Christ Jesus Repsents the tree of Life.
     
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  18. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I suppose one could rightly say Jesus represents the tree of life because of Jesus mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on Earth according to Revelation 22:2.
    Jesus will fulfill God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families of Earth will be blessed, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed according to Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18. Blessed with the benefits of healing for earth's nations during Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth when Earth will become a beautiful paradisical Earth as described at Isaiah 35.
     
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  19. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    First of all a Parable is comparing something to something else.
     
  20. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    Not to mention that man, today, is trying to live as long as possible and the reality that God created man in "The Light" for God is light "1 John 1:5" and the light was the life of man.

    At the speed of light, time is irrelevant.
     
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