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Featured Why there should be no female clergy in any Christian church.

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Jonathan Bailey, May 27, 2019.

  1. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Active Member

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    Considering getting back into the fold: coming home to Jesus in an Affirmed Church this time.
    The Holy Bible says so. A woman may teach Sunday school as that is authority over only children. A woman may become a nun or a Christian layperson and do good Christian works. A woman can't preach to grown men.

    A woman may not lawfully be ordained into any Christian ministry according to Jesus Christ. His original twelve disciples were all male. A woman may not administer any liturgical sacrament as baptism or holy communion.


    1 Corinthians 14:35-36 King James Version (KJV)

    35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

    36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?


    1 Timothy 2:11-12 King James Version (KJV)
    11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

    12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


    1 Timothy 3:2 King James Version (KJV)
    2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

    Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen said this was the reason women cannot be priests:
    See video starting at mark 20:00 ......



    .......because...it is man who gives the seed. The Lord says the Word is the Seed.

    THE MAN PROVIDES IT. THE WOMAN RECEIVES IT.
     
    #1 Jonathan Bailey, May 27, 2019
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  2. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

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    ..and people wonder why the Christian Church is dying out
     
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  3. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    And good riddance. Its because of passages such as those in the OP that make the Bible unsuitable and improper to serve as a guide for morality, and something that has no real place today because we are so far removed from what the Bible actually does teach.
     
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  4. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Well, there you have it Christians. No women preaching in church telling the men what to do. :thumbsup:


    gagged woman in church.png

    .
     
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  5. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Um Dude, you don't get to force your ideas on anyone. Actually, according to the individual Priesthood of the Believer, there should be no clergy. Get off your butt and study for yourself.
     
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  6. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    According to Paul, from what you quoted. The Jesus I read about, I don't see him saying that he won't "'suffer' a woman to 'usurp' authority from a man." Jesus was pretty clear that power and authority were ultimately of no man, and his beef was against the Sadducees and Pharisees, not women. Paul wrote horribly of women, Jesus saved the life of an adulteress and dared anyone to challenge him.
     
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  7. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Aint bronze/iron age scripture so perfect for the 21st century?

    And it is a woman who nurtures that tiny seed, grows it for nine months, gives birth to it and generally raises the offspring to an adult for 27 years or so. And what did man do? Have 10 minutes of bliss then forgot about it.
     
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  8. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Oh dear....could there perhaps be another reason why males must take the lead and women have a supporting role? Does that necessarily mean that women are somehow inferior? How did this shocking inequality happen?! :eek:

    Let's go back to Eden and see what God provided in the way of roles for men and women from the beginning....

    Genesis 2:18...
    "Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper as his complement. (HCBS)

    So an assistant is what? Is a "helper" not a necessary part of any team? What is a "complement"? Isn't it something that makes something else complete? This is what the woman was to the man....in a complementary role that made the man complete. He provided what she needed and she did the same. Together they were one.
    Verse 24 says..."That is why a man will leave his father and his mother and he will stick to his wife, and they will become one flesh." Though two individuals, they operate as one team. Through two bodies God would make one family unit.

    Now we come to the fall and what happened to those complementary roles...

    Genesis 3:16-19...

    "He [God] said to the woman:

    I will intensify your labor pains; you will bear children in anguish.
    Your desire will be for your husband, yet he will rule over you.

    17 And He said to Adam, “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘Do not eat from it’:

    The ground is cursed because of you.
    You will eat from it by means of painful labor all the days of your life and you will eat the plants of the field.
    19 You will eat bread by the sweat of your brow until you return to the ground, since you were taken from it. For you are dust, and you will return to dust.”
    (HCBS)

    Now things were a little different. Their roles would be the same but not with the same result. Sin would now be the cause of much trouble for them. A complete change in lifestyle resulted. Life would now be tough in more ways than one.

    In 1 Timothy 2:12-14, Paul states...
    " I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent. 13 For Adam was created first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed."

    Since sin spread to the entire human race because of what our first parents did, the curse placed on them in Eden was upon all mankind. It virtually meant that the domination of man over woman took on stronger dimensions. Male dominated societies emerged where women had little say and were not often educated like the males were. Israel emerged from that mindset and even though they valued their women highly, the men still took the lead in all things.Israel's entire system of worship was attended to by males. Even God was portrayed as male because of the headship arrangement.

    Paul confirmed this when he wrote...
    1 Corinthians 11:3...
    "But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of the woman, and God is the head of Christ."

    This is the headship arrangement that has applied among Christians from the beginning. There is a chain of command and those in corporate settings know the value of not having too many bosses. If everyone knows their job and stays out of everyone else's business, it all works very well. Competition only causes division.

    Headship is not dictatorship....it is simply a divinely devised chain of command. If Jesus Christ has no problem with headship, being subservient to his Father, then why should I complain about my position in that chain? As far as I am concerned, I am very happy in my God-assigned role and have no need to compete for the position assigned to men. I don't envy them TBH.

    I have no regard for anything an archbishop might have said.....he is not God.....not Jesus Christ, or an apostle.

    Scripture is all I need.
     
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  9. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    Well that was delightfully sexist. Excuse me while I return to the year 2019.
     
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  10. Firemorphic

    Firemorphic Activist Membrane

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    Good point actually!
     
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  11. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    10 minutes?? Man, that's optimistic...
     
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  12. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    Well alrighty then. But to be clear, I couldn't care less about what cardinal fancy pants says about anything.
     
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  13. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    women and men, from 1Cor 2.
    women is code for natural souls, men for spiritual souls. Paul was a proto Valentinian and used their terminology
    Paul says he forbids natural to teach spiritual. if you read Eph.5 there is example for both cases sexual and spiritual.
     
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  14. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    Now if that isnt a reason for women to go on a sex strike, I dont know what is.
     
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  15. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Yes, I love it. I think I might get the OP to join my organization:

    [​IMG]

    Here we are at our latest meeting telling women their 'place':

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    OMG now I want to call Trump Spanky!
     
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  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Sorry, already taken. He does not especially like his nickname in the clubhouse. Especially when said with a Russian accent. It's "Peepee".
     
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  18. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson ζει

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    Yeah, and one of them is #3 (& 3.1.). Jonathan didn't explicitly state which group(s) he wanted to restrict the thread to, did he?

    Screenshot_2019-05-27 Same Faith Debates - Special Rules.png
     
  19. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    That is true. We'll stick with the rules, then, which I apparently forgot.
     
  20. Katja

    Katja Member

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    Didn't we do this thread already a couple months ago? Can we at least have some originality in our misogyny, please?
     
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