Why there should be no female clergy in any Christian church.

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

If Eve were deceived, it wasn't from the serpent. He was the only honest one there. Eve wasn't even created yet when the rule was put down and she adds "touching" to what originally only talked about "eating". The bible doesn't mention who taught her. Whether Adam or God, it still didn't click.

 

[exchemist]

***Mod: This thread has been moved from Same Faith to Religious Debates***

As this is the second time this esteemed member has started a thread on this topic in the space of a month - complete with the same crackly video of some long-dead bishop - should you not merge this one with the earlier one (details provided above by other members)?

 

[wellwisher]

Well that was delightfully sexist. Excuse me while I return to the year 2019.

When I was young, the Catholic Church was a central feature of life in my home town. There were churches everywhere. Starting in the late 1960's and early 1970s the Churches started to accommodate changes. Most of these were suggested by the younger generation, and were Progressive in nature, with a feminized twist.

Since that time, there has been a steady decline in the Church and Church attendance, to where the number of Churches, in the same geographical area, is less 20% of what it had been at its peak. Could this be the affect that was warned of? It did not make the church stronger, nor did it sustain what the church had been. It led to a steady decline and loss of faith.

One of the first changes made, was changing the mass from being spoken in Latin, into English and other languages. Although this done to help people understand what was being spoken, it turned a long standing mystery tradition. and into a temporal fad. This detached the mystery of faith. This marked the beginning of a change away from the timeless ancient traditions.Turning the house, into a home, was like watching Albert Einstein singing karaoke. It distorted a once idealized image of a genius.

A similar affect occurred, about the same time, among the police, fire fighters, and military. Women can do many of the tasks men do. However, rather than simply transition women into these once male exclusive roles, all types of accommodations and changes were made, which then changed the nature of the original. Now we have Darwin, dancing ballet.

Maybe this was not due to the women, but may have been due to male Progressives, speaking on behalf of the women. Progressive says "equal", but then act in ways based on dual standards, as though the word "equal" is used to be charming, while special accommodations are instituted to help create an illusion for the weaker sex. Women go along, wth the binarius with two faces. This is not new.

 

[SomeRandom]

When I was young, the Catholic Church was a central feature of life in my home town. There were churches everywhere. Starting in the late 1960's and early 1970s the Churches started to accommodate changes. Most of these were suggested by the younger generation, and were Progressive in nature, with a feminized twist.

Since that time, there has been a steady decline in the Church and Church attendance, to where the number of Churches, in the same geographical area, is less 20% of what it had been at its peak. Could this be the affect that was warned of? It did not make the church stronger, nor did it sustain what the church had been. It led to a steady decline and loss of faith.

One of the first changes made, was changing the mass from being spoken in Latin, into English and other languages. Although this done to help people understand what was being spoken, it turned a long standing mystery tradition. and into a temporal fad. This detached the mystery of faith. This marked the beginning of a change away from the timeless ancient traditions.Turning the house, into a home, was like watching Albert Einstein singing karaoke. It distorted a once idealized image of a genius.

A similar affect occurred, about the same time, among the police, fire fighters, and military. Women can do many of the tasks men do. However, rather than simply transition women into these once male exclusive roles, all types of accommodations and changes were made, which then changed the nature of the original. Now we have Darwin, dancing ballet.

Maybe this was not due to the women, but may have been due to male Progressives, speaking on behalf of the women. Progressive says "equal", but then act in ways based on dual standards, as though the word "equal" is used to be charming, while special accommodations are instituted to help create an illusion for the weaker sex. Women go along, wth the binarius with two faces. This is not new.

Or times changed and the Church got left behind.
I’ll grant you that some moves to make things equal aren’t always the greatest.
But perhaps the Church needs to become relevant in these times of increased skepticism and education.
Or it can flounder. I’m not really bothered either way.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

THE MAN PROVIDES IT. THE WOMAN RECEIVES IT.

That sounds so dirty.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Aint bronze/iron age scripture so perfect for the 21st century?

And it is a woman who nurtures that tiny seed, grows it for nine months, gives birth to it and generally raises the offspring to an adult for 27 years or so. And what did man do? Have 10 minutes of bliss then forgot about it.

You loved those 10 minutes and you know it!


Also, don't understimate the nagging we men have to endure during those 27 years either.....

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Heaven forbid!! We will find another reason to keep our club going. Hmm, perhaps a switch to Islam.

There are secular alternatives as well.

I can recommend the organization called "No ma'am" with as founder and president the legendary Al Bundy

T-shirts available online!

 

[BilliardsBall]

The Holy Bible says so. A woman may teach Sunday school as that is authority over only children. A woman may become a nun or a Christian layperson and do good Christian works. A woman can't preach to grown men.

A woman may not lawfully be ordained into any Christian ministry according to Jesus Christ. His original twelve disciples were all male. A woman may not administer any liturgical sacrament as baptism or holy communion.


1 Corinthians 14:35-36 King James Version (KJV)
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?


1 Timothy 2:11-12 King James Version (KJV)
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


1 Timothy 3:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen said this was the reason women cannot be priests:
See video starting at mark 20:00 ......

.......because...it is man who gives the seed. The Lord says the Word is the Seed.

THE MAN PROVIDES IT. THE WOMAN RECEIVES IT.

You are close to the truth, but a woman may preach publicly, serve as a deaconess or apostle, and certainly can preach the Word to a congregation, under pastoral authority/covering.

But we have a lot more we should be talking about at this forum like abortion and homosexuality than egalitarian issues IMHO.

 

[Fool]

The Holy Bible says so. A woman may teach Sunday school as that is authority over only children. A woman may become a nun or a Christian layperson and do good Christian works. A woman can't preach to grown men.

A woman may not lawfully be ordained into any Christian ministry according to Jesus Christ. His original twelve disciples were all male. A woman may not administer any liturgical sacrament as baptism or holy communion.


1 Corinthians 14:35-36 King James Version (KJV)
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?


1 Timothy 2:11-12 King James Version (KJV)
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


1 Timothy 3:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen said this was the reason women cannot be priests:
See video starting at mark 20:00 ......

.......because...it is man who gives the seed. The Lord says the Word is the Seed.

THE MAN PROVIDES IT. THE WOMAN RECEIVES IT.

paul was never an apostle to jesus. he had one experience on damascus road.

deborah was considered a prophetess; so were other women allowed to teach in the OT and/or became nazarites. the books of ruth and esther are a testament to the holiness of women.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But we have a lot more we should be talking about at this forum like abortion and homosexuality than egalitarian issues IMHO.

Yeah, because those things matter much more than charity, compassion, fighting injustice and caring for the poor, orphans, widows and outcasts. Jesus certainly thought so, too.

 

[viole]

2) Not understanding the culture of the time and how to implement scripture

Ergo, morality is relative. Right?

Ciao

- viole

P.S. and we need scriptures Version 2.0 double quick, lol. At least a beta thereof.

 

[1213]

The Holy Bible says so. A woman may teach Sunday school as that is authority over only children. A woman may become a nun or a Christian layperson and do good Christian works. A woman can't preach to grown men.
....

Probably even men should not seek those positions, because it is said:


For they bind heavy burdens that are grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not lift a finger to help them. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad, enlarge the fringes of their garments, and love the place of honor at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, the salutations in the marketplaces, and to be called 'Rabbi, Rabbi' by men. But don't you be called 'Rabbi,' for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers. Call no man on the earth your father, for one is your Father, he who is in heaven. Neither be called masters, for one is your master, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you will be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
Mat. 23:4-12

Apparently, men and women have same lust for power and glory.

 

[Kenny]

Ergo, morality is relative. Right?

Ciao

- viole

P.S. and we need scriptures Version 2.0 double quick, lol. At least a beta thereof.

Only in that with apples and oranges are both fruit-- so it must be relative.

 

[ajay0]

The Holy Bible says so. A woman may teach Sunday school as that is authority over only children. A woman may become a nun or a Christian layperson and do good Christian works. A woman can't preach to grown men.

A woman may not lawfully be ordained into any Christian ministry according to Jesus Christ. His original twelve disciples were all male. A woman may not administer any liturgical sacrament as baptism or holy communion.


1 Corinthians 14:35-36 King James Version (KJV)
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?


1 Timothy 2:11-12 King James Version (KJV)
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.


1 Timothy 3:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen said this was the reason women cannot be priests:
See video starting at mark 20:00 ......

.......because...it is man who gives the seed. The Lord says the Word is the Seed.

THE MAN PROVIDES IT. THE WOMAN RECEIVES IT.

All this stuff was said by Paul, someone who had never even met Jesus and had fought against his institution in the beginning.

I don't think Christianity as taught by Jesus was against the empowerment of women to leadership roles. That also reminds one of the medieval minded Taliban and ISIS.

The Prajapita Brahmakumaris is a monotheistic religion that is led, administered and taught by women, with centres in almost every country in the world.

The success of this spiritual institution shows that religious and spiritual leadership need not be a males only domain.

Obviously spiritual values like love, compassion ,peace and empathy comes natural to women than egoistic men who have used religion for formenting conflict and disharmony for many centuries to the present day.

I think it is high time we had female popes, imams, rabbis and ayatollah's and then there might be a better possibility of peace, love and harmony to prevail.

 

[sooda]

If Eve were deceived, it wasn't from the serpent. He was the only honest one there. Eve wasn't even created yet when the rule was put down and she adds "touching" to what originally only talked about "eating". The bible doesn't mention who taught her. Whether Adam or God, it still didn't click.

Are you arguing the details of an allegory??????????

 

[sooda]

Women are no longer chattel. They can perform brain surgery or fly a jet fighter... Surely they can speak in church.

 

[Fool]

A prophet is not necessarily a man. Scripture records the stories of seven female prophets, listed below, and the Talmud reports that Sarah's prophetic ability was superior to Abraham's.

A prophet is not necessarily a Jew. The Talmud reports that there were prophets among the gentiles (most notably Balaam, whose story is told in Numbers 22), although they were not as elevated as the prophets of Israel (as the story of Balaam demonstrates). And some of the prophets, such as Jonah, were sent on missions to speak to the gentiles.


Huldah, the Prophet: Midrash and Aggadah | Jewish Women's Archive


List of Jewish Prophets

 

[ChristineM]

You loved those 10 minutes and you know it!


Also, don't understimate the nagging we men have to endure during those 27 years either.....

I think 10 minutes was an overestimate after a particularly extended bout of passion. I have stated 4 minutes on these pages before and no one challenged me.

And i apologise for my typo, should have read 18, not 27 (although 27 is typical for Mediterranean countries. )

Nagging!!! Nagging!!! Pull you finger out, put down the beer and pizza, get your butt off the couch actually do something to help raise your progeny and the nagging suddenly disappears

 

[Brickjectivity]

If Eve were deceived, it wasn't from the serpent. He was the only honest one there. Eve wasn't even created yet when the rule was put down and she adds "touching" to what originally only talked about "eating". The bible doesn't mention who taught her. Whether Adam or God, it still didn't click.

Good observation which implies that we aren't talking about deceitful words and that the story in the garden does not directly relate to whether priests are male or not. Romans 7 also indicates that the deception in the garden is not about words.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Aint bronze/iron age scripture so perfect for the 21st century?

And it is a woman who nurtures that tiny seed, grows it for nine months, gives birth to it and generally raises the offspring to an adult for 27 years or so. And what did man do? Have 10 minutes of bliss then forgot about it.

Late bronze age, but in this case the men are charged with teaching the children. That is part of what the OP is overlooking. The men are supposed to teach the children, and they are in charge of adoption, too. Hence its irresponsible for the minister to leave this out. The explanation given is unfortunately vapid.