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Featured Why Bahai

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by firedragon, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    No worries, thank you.

    It has been the Muslim way to have great debates about religion. Many of the early followers were of course Muslim before Baha'i and they could not be beaten in these debates. Most of them were killed.

    Thus in the end, what was the point of the debate? One's heart is looking or it is not. A blacksmith can teach the greatest scholar with the simplest explanation if Truth is imparted.

    Otherwise it is words that ends in words.

    Regards Tony
     
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  2. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Peace.
     
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  3. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    This law is yet to be implemented, it is not yet known what the details of law may be.

    Whatever they are, I would implement them immediately.

    Thus you will not find the required details on this law.

    Regards Tony
     
  4. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Yes I also see the person of flesh does not come back.

    Regards Tony
     
  5. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    One example is Surah 24. Verses 2-34 Muhammad speaks of morality, particularly sexual morality beginning with a strongly worded admonition:

    The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.

    Then verse 35 moves suddenly to a very different theme in a different style to the parable of the light,

    Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The example of His light is like a niche within which is a lamp, the lamp is within glass, the glass as if it were a pearly [white] star lit from [the oil of] a blessed olive tree, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would almost glow even if untouched by fire. Light upon light. Allah guides to His light whom He wills. And Allah presents examples for the people, and Allah is Knowing of all things.
     
  6. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Okay. Now I understand what you said.

    1. The kithab I akdhas is not of the same genre as the Quran. So if you look at the books from a satellite view only you will see the patterns. So if you read the whole of your holy book, you will see the patterns and this verse doesnt match. But yet, i am no scholar of the kithab I akdhas so it was just my opinion.

    2. The original manuscript of the kithab I akdhas ends one verse prior. It's written fully in pages and if you look at the end you can see easily that it ends at the verse that speaks about the maturity of human kind. So the opium verse definitely looks like an addiction. But yet again, i am no scholar of the manuscripts so maybe you have another one. I am not referring to a manuscript parchment or anything like that. Not fragments. I mean the full book. It ends with the verse, then begins another phase.

    Hope you understand. I understand your point. But it's not valid brother.
     
  7. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

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    Yes and thanks for your response.... The book is well documented and has a fine glossary. I think you'll find it worth your while to obtain a copy or check your library and review it!

    Buddha Maitrya-Amitabha has appeared (Book, 1976) [WorldCat.org]

    Fozdar also has a paper he submitted "The revivification of the Buddha's Dharma" that is online and can be downloaded:

    The Revivification of the Buddha's Dharma


    You can also read a brief essay at
    Buddhism and the Bahá'í Faith
     
    #507 arthra, Sep 16, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
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  8. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    When I first learned about the Baha'i Faith in the 70's, I didn't know what people in other religions believed. I took what I was being told as the truth. Then, during the "Jesus Freak" movement, a friend of mine "found" Jesus. I went with him to Bible studies and found out that it was far different than what Baha'is told me about Christianity. After a few more years, I went into a Jewish bookstore and asked them... "If all these other religions say they came from you guys, why then, don't you guys believe them?" They told me and gave some books on how Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies about being the Messiah. And I completely agree with them. But then, I can see why Christians think he was the Messiah. It's all in how a person wants to see it.

    Baha'is see it so clearly, Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ and Buddha, and Krishna, and everybody else. Why can't we see it? Maybe it ain't all that clear.
     
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  9. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Are you referring to the text of the Kitab-i-Aqdas itself or the notes section? The notes section ends by referring to the maturity of mankind. The text does not.
     
  10. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    I'm fine with Baha'is living up to their highest ideals and goals. Unfortunately, that includes "teaching" others about the new message from God. And, unfortunately, it contradicts what people in the other religions think is true.

    Can a Baha'i honestly go to a church or temple of another religion and say that they believe the same as those people? No, Baha'is don't believe in many of the doctrines of the other religions. That is all a lot of us have been saying. Baha'is believe in a Baha'i interpretation of all those other religions. Which means, Baha'is don't agree with what those people think is true. And on and on it goes. Baha'is act as if they do. And we keep telling them, no you don't. And you don't.

    Go to a Protestant Christian church and tell them that Jesus is physically dead, that he didn't physically rise from the dead, that all those verses that say he did are wrong. It wasn't a physical resurrection. It a symbolic resurrection.

    Your beliefs are different. They might be true, but that would make some of the other religions beliefs false. So why not make it clear from the start, and very obvious, that Baha'is believe every other religion has had things added into them that are not true and did not come from God. And, were not in the original message of the prophet of that religion. And then, make it clear, that Baha'u'llah tells us, in essence, what that "original" message was all about. Peace, love and unity and that one day the Glory of God, was going to come and fix everything. And today is that day, no, actually, 150 years ago was the day. Baha'u'llah has come and brought a message that will, if applied, lead to peace, love and unity.
     
    #510 CG Didymus, Sep 16, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
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  11. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Yes we accept the Founders and Their Holy Books which all sects accept. The differences and division between the sects are their added man made laws and interpretations which are different from sect to sect and upon which there is no consensus. The only consensus for instance that exists between say Christian sects is they believe in Jesus and the Bible but that’s where consensus ends. The Baha’i Faith accepts the consensus that all of them agree upon.

    So when I walk into a Christian Church I accept Jesus is from God and the Bible is the Word of God like all other Christian sects do. That is the point of unity.

    None of the sects of any of the great religions accept each other’s version of the truth but they do accept the basic foundation which we accept also.

    Your beliefs are different. They might be true, but that would make some of the other religions beliefs false. So why not make it clear from the start, and very obvious, that Baha'is believe every other religion has had things added into them that are not true and did not come from God. And, were not in the original message of the prophet of that religion. And then, make it clear, that Baha'u'llah tells us, in essence, what that "original" message was all about. Peace, love and unity and that one day the Glory of God, was going to come and fix everything. And today is that day, no, actually, 150 years ago was the day. Baha'u'llah has come and brought a message that will, if applied, lead to peace, love and unity.

    This above statement by you is beautiful and i thought that we had made that clear but then we tend to get lost sometimes in all our quotes and perhaps haven’t put it as clearly as you have. Yes we accept the foundation of all religions but yes also there has been a lot added that was not in the original message. That’s why religions divided into sects long ago each differing about the added stuff such as interpretations and things like sacraments etc But the basic foundations most sects of any religion agree upon and that’s our point of unity with them.
     
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  12. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    People are free to believe whatever they wish. It's still a psychological study to me, not a religious study at all.
     
  13. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    These are all from Baha'i authors and through that lens. Not at all from Buddhist folks.
     
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  14. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Have you seen @shunyadragon 's avatar? :D
     
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  15. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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  16. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Its not about interpretation at all. Its about deliberating altering the text.
     
  17. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    I know plenty of male Baha'is with long hair. No one ever makes an issue of it. To my knowledge there is no binding law that stipulates hair length. In all my years of serving on assemblies the issue of someone's hair cut has never arisen. So if its not an issue for Baha'is why is it an issue for non-Baha'is?
     
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  18. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Not an issue for me at all either. As I said on that thread ... meh. There are far bigger challenges.
     
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  19. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    I am reminded of Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

    To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
    A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
    A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
    A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
    A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
    A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
    A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
    A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.


    The decision not to take on the Roman Empire was a pragmatic one. The Jews were likely to be crushes as history demonstrated with the destruction of Jerusalem and Temple in 70 AD and defeat in subsequent Jewish uprisings. God clearly backed the Jewish people for war in the Hebrew Bible along with King David who was a warrior King. So is your argument Muhammad wasn't a Prophet because He enabled His followers to defend themselves whereas Jesus was the Son of God because He advised His followers to turn the other cheek? The argument doesn't work because if we apply the same standards to Muhammad as we do to other Prophets in the Hebrew Bible, then King David and Moses were not from God either.

    To be clear the comparison between the Baha'i Faith and both Islam and Christianity is astounding. The Baha'i Faith promotes the abolition of slavery, the equality of men and women and promotion of democracy. Christianity and Islam both endorsed slavery as the status quo, had nothing to say about democracy and promoted a standard of gender equality that belongs to a bygone era.

    That's not the message at all. The Gospels and the Quran provided a Message that was right for that time in history but clearly unsuited to our current age. So Baha'u'llah's message:

    The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.

    Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Page 213

    All the best. Thanks for dropping by. :)
     
  20. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Anyone can claim to be a prophet/son/messenger/manifestation/mahdi and thousands have done it in history. These are false lights and mislead. That is why there is strife in the world. No evidence is needed to be offered. Bahaullah just picked up a new term and explanation (equally factitious) for himself.

    "Throughout history, various individuals have claimed to be the Mahdi. These have included Muhammad Jaunpuri, founder of the Mahdavia sect; the Báb (Siyyid Ali Muhammad), founder of Bábism; Muhammad Ahmad, who established the Mahdist State in Sudan in the late 19th century; Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, founder of the Ahmadiyya movement; and Riaz Ahmed Gohar Shahi."
    Mahdi - Wikipedia
    It should have arisen. Such people are flouting the "Word of Allah". You surely do not want just to be pretenders (Munafiq).
     
    #520 Aupmanyav, Sep 16, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
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