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Featured Why Bahai

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by firedragon, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    So, I'm not getting your comment on when I said "good point." There is no return. It defeats the purpose of enlightenment when the buddha who was supposed to be enlightened comes back to experience rebirth.

    Him coming back to "carry a new message" is assuming he is a prophet. I never heard of such a thing in the suttas.
     
  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    folks who have 'clocked' Bahai for what they believe it is.
     
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  3. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    That is a truckload of mines, so many different branches and views. I could go through and pick out what I see my have some foundation is what the Buddha did offer, but I see it will not help much.

    Much like this, I see this prediction has strong foundation;

    "..... At this time a notable teaching he will start giving is that of the ten non-virtuous deeds (killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, lying, divisive speech, abusive speech, idle speech, covetousness, harmful intent and wrong views) and the ten virtuous deeds (the abandonment of: killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, lying, divisive speech, abusive speech, idle speech, covetousness, harmful intent and wrong views).... "

    Regards Tony
     
  4. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Apparently at least one...

    Bayání Gnosticism
     
  5. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Thanks, Tony.
     
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  6. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I am an advaitist Hindu pagan and a strong atheist.
    I do not deny the light, but we already have the beacon. Not part of the whole, but the whole itself.
    A very famous invocatory verse:

    "Purnamadah, purnamidam, purnāt purnam udachyate;
    purnasya purnam ādāya, purnam eva vasisthyate."

    Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, Yajurveda.

    (That is whole, this is whole, from that whole arises this whole'
    to the whole, add the whole, what results is still the whole)

    Hinduism is Quantum Mechanics.

    "Aham Brahmasmi" (I am Brahman, Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, YajurVeda),
    "Tat twam asi" (That is what you are, Chandogya Upanishad, SamaVeda).

    [​IMG] See the light?
     
    #486 Aupmanyav, Sep 16, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
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  7. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Buddha never said that he will return. "Gatey Gatey .." emphasizes that. Reincarnation in Buddhism is different from what we have in Hinduism. Only 'karmas' remain. The person does not come back, because the 'personhood' has no substance (Anatta).
     
  8. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    OK

    Sure

    Its never something I've thought about to be honest. The idea that God would sent His last Revelation to humankind through Muhammad I have never believed. I don't mean that in any negative or derogatory sense towards the Prophet Muhammad or the Holy Quran.

    I have grown up in the West as a Christian and become a Baha'i in my early adult life. I explored Buddhism, Hinduism and atheism as I was searching for truth. Islam did not interest me even remotely until I became a Baha'i.

    I understand that and agree entirely. In trying to understand the Baha'i Faith, it would be best for you to talk to a Baha'i who has grown up with Islam, preferably been a Muslim beforehand. I have grown up with Christianity and was Christian prior to becoming a Baha'i. @InvestigateTruth has a Muslim background I understand. I'm happy to talk with you regardless but I can see now that we will often misunderstand each other because of the very different cultures we have grown up in.

    I totally understand what you mean by going to the root and for Baha'is that is Baha'u'llah's Teachings. That is something I can help you with.

    The full English translation of the Kitab-i-Aqdas made available in 1992 is very clear. Its great you can read the Arabic original.

    So here's the two verses you refer:

    O members of parliaments throughout the world! Select ye a single language for the use of all on earth, and adopt ye likewise a common script. God, verily, maketh plain for you that which shall profit you and enable you to be independent of others. He, of a truth, is the Most Bountiful, the All-Knowing, the All-Informed. This will be the cause of unity, could ye but comprehend it, and the greatest instrument for promoting harmony and civilization, would that ye might understand! We have appointed two signs for the coming of age of the human race: the first, which is the most firm foundation, We have set down in other of Our Tablets, while the second hath been revealed in this wondrous Book.

    It hath been forbidden you to smoke opium. We, truly, have prohibited this practice through a most binding interdiction in the Book. Should anyone partake thereof, assuredly he is not of Me. Fear God, O ye endued with understanding!


    Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 77-88

    It surprises me to hear the original Arabic version does not contain the 190th verse. The English translation was not fully completed until over 30 years after Shoghi Effendi's passing. I think if Shoghi Effendi had inserted a verse as you propose, the team completing the translation would have twigged at some stage over 30 years, don't you think? Baha'u'llah's Writings can jump around from time to time. I've noticed similarities in the Quran (English translation of course).

    Do you mean this verse?:

    Whoso interpreteth what hath been sent down from the heaven of Revelation, and altereth its evident meaning, he, verily, is of them that have perverted the Sublime Word of God, and is of the lost ones in the Lucid Book.
    Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 49-63

    It certainly would have been ironic if Shoghi Effendi had made the insertion of p190 immediately after translating verse 105.

    The Kitab-i-Aqdas is a book of laws for a future world civilisation. An example of Baha'u'llah proclaiming His Station can be found in the opening verse to Napoleon III

    O KING of Paris! Tell the priest to ring the bells no longer. By God, the True One! The Most Mighty Bell hath appeared in the form of Him Who is the Most Great Name, and the fingers of the will of Thy Lord, the Most Exalted, the Most High, toll it out in the heaven of Immortality, in His name, the All-Glorious. Thus have the mighty verses of Thy Lord been again sent down unto thee, that thou mayest arise to remember God, the Creator of earth and heaven, in these days when all the tribes of the earth have mourned, and the foundations of the cities have trembled, and the dust of irreligion hath enwrapped all men, except such as God, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise, was pleased to spare. Say: He Who is the Unconditioned is come, in the clouds of light, that He may quicken all created things with the breeze of His Name, the Most Merciful, and unify the world, and gather all men around this Table which hath been sent down from heaven. Beware that ye deny not the favour of God after it hath been sent down unto you. Better is this for you than that which ye possess; for that which is yours perisheth, whilst that which is with God endureth. He, in truth, ordaineth what He pleaseth. Verily, the breezes of forgiveness have been wafted from the direction of your Lord, the God of Mercy; whoso turneth thereunto, shall be cleansed of his sins, and of all pain and sickness. Happy the man that hath turned towards them, and woe betide him that hath turned aside.

    Bahá'í Reference Library - Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 17-23


    Of course the allusions appear more Christian than Islamic. What do you think?
     
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  9. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    The person doesn't come back in Hinduism either. Just the jiva.
     
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  10. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    The vindictive rubbish continues. False

    Needs clarification and citation.


    Picking frog hairs to justify an acrid agenda.
     
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  11. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    What Quran verse are you speaking of?
     
  12. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Thats not the verse I was speaking of. But lets just drop that in this thread brother. I see no point. Thank you very much for responding. Hope you have a great day. Cheers.
     
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  13. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    With all honesty, your comments are way too vague. I prefer direct references to the direct sources and analytic discussions.

    You have been very courteous and decent and I respect that.

    I shall leave it at that.

    Peace.
     
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  14. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    And the Jiva is none other than Brahman, so said Sankara:
    "Brahma satyam, jagan-mithya, jivo Brahmaiva na parah .."
    (Brahman is the truth, the observed (world) is untruth, Jiva is not different from Brahman ..) :D
     
  15. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Yeah. That's another way to explain it.
     
  16. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Some one explained it to be in this way: Karmas are like billiard balls, once put in motion, they affect many balls. The first ball is irrelevant after it has collided with others and if it does not fall into the pocket.
     
    #496 Aupmanyav, Sep 16, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
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  17. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Can someone give me a direct reference to a scripture attributed to the Buddha which explains reincarnation as you have explained?
     
  18. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    You clearly do not know about your own religion.

    Baha'i men may not grow their hair below the ear lobe.

    Now, if you just confirm that you knew nothing about this then we'll educate you about this Baha'i rule.
     
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  19. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Said simply in modern English it means: "If you do not understand the way I want you to understand, then your are the perverter of God's word (i.e., my word) and you are one of the lost ones."
    Thanks. No problem. I will understand it in my way.
     
  20. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    This is good. I see a beacon is made to shine and give a safe path to others in the dark of night. It is part of the whole as darkness is also required for it to shine.

    I see when the source of light, the Sun rises, the beacon is dimmed by the intensity of that light.

    I see we can all become a beacon which in turn can shine a path to others in darkness, but a beacon requires to be lit by a power that is not its own.

    I see this concept would be difficult when one takes the source out of the picture.

    I see the Manifestations are the source, we shine when we turn to the power source. I also see that all good is the source of power. Thus I see we are all beacons of varied brightness.

    Thanks for those passages, even if we do see them in different light. Regards Tony
     
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