What will be the Truth?

[TransmutingSoul]

If not, maybe it's best to suggest ways to tackle these issues from a humanity perspective rather than a godly one?
So, maybe a different method of gaining world peace that incorporates all maybe be a good place to begin?

I put those two questions together as the answer covers them both.

From a Baha'i perspective we have this passage from Baha'u'llah, "The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded."

If that passage has any merit, then that is the only way we will find peace and security and It would not be just of me to offer any other path.

Those councils given from the Most High in this age are from Baha'u'llah (That's what I see). So that is indeed a quandary, how will the world except those councils? I see they will do it eventually of their own choice, but what will be the cost?

From what I see written it will be through a series of convulsions such as covoid-19 being a taste of what may shake the limbs of mankind. Baha'u'llah wrote; "..The signs of impending convulsions and chaos can now be discerned, inasmuch as the prevailing order appeareth to be lamentably defective..", then Shoghi Effendi in the mid 1900's wrote this;

"...Must humanity, tormented as she now is, be afflicted with still severer tribulations ere their purifying influence can prepare her to enter the heavenly Kingdom destined to be established upon earth? Must the inauguration of so vast, so unique, so illumined an era in human history be ushered in by so great a catastrophe in human affairs as to recall, nay surpass, the appalling collapse of Roman civilization in the first centuries of the Christian Era? Must a series of profound convulsions stir and rock the human race ere Bahá’u’lláh can be enthroned in the hearts and consciences of the masses, ere His undisputed ascendancy is universally recognized, and the noble edifice of His World Order is reared and established?..."

It is out of Love that I offer this Message Unveiled Artist, as I see those warnings unfolding every day and it is only when we embrace our oneness and unity that we can put a balance back into this world. Our disunity has built a civilization built on greed and exploitation of this planet in many ways. A great change is needed. But it can only be offered, as God only Offers and warns of what our choices will produce.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I lost you near the tail end of the metaphor. If every color except black is a reflection of light (have some sort of positive attributes?)-the source being white-then how can there be an absence of it (or any negative attributes)?

White is not a colour, it is made up of all the different colour wavelengths, "Black and white are not colors because they do not have specific wavelengths. Instead, white light contains all wavelengths of visible light. Black, on the other hand, is the absence of visible light."

That is how the message of Baha'u'llah can be seen in science. All the Messengers are the wavelengths of colour, together they are seen as White pure light.

Sorry out of time - Look after yourself - Regards Tony

 

[ChristineM]

Are we not both saying Truth is Relative? Even in science, is not Truth only relative to our current knowledge? Can not scientific facts change when we discover new understandings?

Regards Tony

No, i am saying truth is that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.

Science does not deal in facts, it deals in evidence

 

[Trailblazer]

Atheism : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Nothing more, nothing less.

It is the only reality that anyone has evidence for.

There no evidence for no god, so that is not necessarily reality.

 

[Trailblazer]

Atheism : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Nothing more, nothing less.

It is the only reality that anyone has evidence for.

There no evidence for no god, so that is not necessarily reality.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

White is not a colour, it is made up of all the different colour wavelengths, "Black and white are not colors because they do not have specific wavelengths. Instead, white light contains all wavelengths of visible light. Black, on the other hand, is the absence of visible light."

That is how the message of Baha'u'llah can be seen in science. All the Messengers are the wavelengths of colour, together they are seen as White pure light.

Sorry out of time - Look after yourself - Regards Tony

I'm assuming white and black are colors in relation to the question and metaphor.

Let's say black and white are colors since like red and orange our minds and vision can't judge the nature of light and color.

That said, if there is only white or light then how can there be darkness or black? If there is only positive attributes than "negative ones" would still be positive because you'd see then as different perspectives of truth or light rather than see them as black or negative as the eyes are seeing.

Relating to that, if all is positive when solving humanities "problems" it's hard to solve problems when you see all is light and everyone is has different perspectives but see light themselves.

How do you actively solve problems or see darkness in order to address it when you only see light?

Like my example of war. If one says war is good and the other bad, they'd both be light just from different perspectives, right?

Killing is good to one person and bad to another. So humanities problems aren't problems just different reflections of the truth.

So, how do you address absent of light when you only see light while others tell you the darkness?

There's no problem with humanity if light exists only? How can you have the absence of light if it's eternally present?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I put those two questions together as the answer covers them both.

From a Baha'i perspective we have this passage from Baha'u'llah, "The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded."

If that passage has any merit, then that is the only way we will find peace and security and It would not be just of me to offer any other path.

Those councils given from the Most High in this age are from Baha'u'llah (That's what I see). So that is indeed a quandary, how will the world except those councils? I see they will do it eventually of their own choice, but what will be the cost?

From what I see written it will be through a series of convulsions such as covoid-19 being a taste of what may shake the limbs of mankind. Baha'u'llah wrote; "..The signs of impending convulsions and chaos can now be discerned, inasmuch as the prevailing order appeareth to be lamentably defective..", then Shoghi Effendi in the mid 1900's wrote this;

"...Must humanity, tormented as she now is, be afflicted with still severer tribulations ere their purifying influence can prepare her to enter the heavenly Kingdom destined to be established upon earth? Must the inauguration of so vast, so unique, so illumined an era in human history be ushered in by so great a catastrophe in human affairs as to recall, nay surpass, the appalling collapse of Roman civilization in the first centuries of the Christian Era? Must a series of profound convulsions stir and rock the human race ere Bahá’u’lláh can be enthroned in the hearts and consciences of the masses, ere His undisputed ascendancy is universally recognized, and the noble edifice of His World Order is reared and established?..."

It is out of Love that I offer this Message Unveiled Artist, as I see those warnings unfolding every day and it is only when we embrace our oneness and unity that we can put a balance back into this world. Our disunity has built a civilization built on greed and exploitation of this planet in many ways. A great change is needed. But it can only be offered, as God only Offers and warns of what our choices will produce.

Regards Tony

So I ask. How do you address humanity's problems when one person doesn't see unity as a solution and you do?

Not the theology of the problem and solution but the action. Of course we can try to understand but there needs to be action involved.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I see that we are warned of what our vain imaginings produce, which is disunity and decay.
Now the quandary Is any of our versions of the Truth, actually Truth? Are the warnings given by the Messengers valid? Are you correct in what you say?

You tell me. What proof can you provide me for existence of Allah, soul and this 19th Century Iranian preacher being his manifestation (Avatara)? Is the disunity and decay is because of my not accepting what one person professed without providing any proof? Or it is because of some special reason that we see Bahais desperately proselytising in religious forums?
Have these who profess to be prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis been dispatched by any God or Allah with ever new messages, or they are just charlatans or schizophrenics / megalomaniacs?
I go by science and not by sayings or writings of unqualified people. These so-called scriptures are mostly no different from World-press blog posts.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You tell me. What proof can you provide me for existence of Allah, soul and this 19th Century Iranian preacher being his manifestation (Avatara)? Is the disunity and decay is because of my not accepting what one person professed without providing any proof? Or it is because of some special reason that we see Bahais desperately proselytising in religious forums?
Have these who profess to be prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis been dispatched by any God or Allah with ever new messages, or they are just charlatans or schizophrenics?
I go by science and not by sayings or writings of unqualified people. These so-called scriptures are mostly no different from World-press blog posts.

I can say, all those questions are for you to decide.

Meanwhile, you know we will always help, if you need help.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So I ask. How do you address humanity's problems when one person doesn't see unity as a solution and you do?

Not the theology of the problem and solution but the action. Of course we can try to understand but there needs to be action involved.

I see it is for me to live as I believe, if that benefits humanity, time will show it to be so.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

Meanwhile, you know we will always help, if you need help.

Ah! Thanks. I can do without any monotheist help.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I see it is for me to live as I believe, if that benefits humanity, time will show it to be so.

Regards Tony

This is your belief but it says nothing how you'd solve the problem (the action) if you were in a position with other people of humanity in order to do so.

Another way to put it. How does Bahaullah address people who do not see peace through unity?

How does he handle the discrepancy between his beliefs and others in order to keep peace among people who "also" wish to achieve it?

If the other person you speak with doesn't support unity (but still supports peace), what "actions" would you suggest that both parties would accept as answers to the problem with humanity?

The questions (rather than rhetorical ones) would be the same if I asked bahaullah. I'm wondering how you would approach it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I can say, all those questions are for you to decide.

Meanwhile, you know we will always help, if you need help.

Regards Tony

A guess another good example of my questions is how do you solve (action) the dependency between your views and @Aupmanyav if you wanted to gain peace with humanity among those with varied opinions?

 

[rational experiences]

Consciousness is how we exist. As a self human. Which should be the first topic.

As a science quote about what is relative.

Then you would say I am surviving only on a Planet O stone, that we said was Earth and also a God body. An angel that spiritually had fallen through space into Hell...burning. Our God is stone says the scientist.

Surviving because the planet O is its own self destructive reactive body naturally.

So an honest and rational scientist would say to self, hence, do no changes to it...for it is already reactive, if you owned common sense. Which you prove you never owned.

As a conscious state, you know a huge amount of aware information.

So when a human says and light is eternal, you know they are not being honest. For at night time, the coldest history space is darkness...but it is clear gas darkness as the highest state in space....once burning gas.

And that information is science advised. Yet if you lit up night time sky, day light sky would increase its gases burning and life would be destroyed.

So you write a book that says, when the male science self, as a community owns particular male life conscious expressions, they then inherit and own the life of the Destroyer....who knows the higher states in his natural life, who owns theories in science that says will take from the higher state, to obtain a COPY.

Natural light....which is gases burning.

What theory he applies today.

Now Father in AI statements said, as the original scientist. The word eternal meant had always existed. Which means, was never burning. Which means was never destroyed, which means always will exist. And a gas does not own that status.

Science also says infinite always will exist....yet that claim is a theory.

Infinite was stated to be a deep spatial pit, that everything falls into as it falls out of its orbit in its destruction. Could not give it a number measure quote, so instead just gave space a word.

Cannot measure the eternal, for it was never in creation....so it too never owned a measure, it only owned a word.

And guess what egotist, you can use and apply words without ownership. Yet egotism, and the expression of it in science says COPY about everything.

When I can design and press buttons it claims, I am copying.

So then you have to question that Destroyer mentality and ask it....did a human being male living on a created stone planet inside of an atmosphere create everything?

No, he says I thought about it all first, gave it descriptions, claim I know it all...and then press my button on my machine claiming I am getting the power of God at its beginnings to do it again.....you know create everything, yet go past what God created coal and create electricity...for you know I can displace natural order he says.

Yet he says the order, (science) a formula as science, the actual creation/theorising and theme science was based on the mountain peak ^ physical mass presence and then its removal by o.

^ and o are not the same symbol are they!

The truth in a male life by his ownership I invented the statements and laws for science, my machine, for natural laws are owned naturally by natural conditions, as the fact of it, said, I argue everyday with self. For when a male says one statement, then another statement already naturally exists as a contradiction.

Therefore when a male says ^ natural order, numbers and a formula remains the same and then he watches as it disintegrates into a heaped mass of particles on the ground, then he lied....as the Destroyer science mentality is his mentality.

Superiority, why he claims as he thinks that he is the Deity as a male.

So then knowing that the science documents stated, but humans are equal....then had to lie about giving female quotes to science, otherwise he would be a proven liar.

Then however he said no Man is God...so then his truth was that he said, oh a female has to be God then, and claimed, yes the female quote is MATHS.

His truth.

 

[ChristineM]

There no evidence for no god, so that is not necessarily reality.

No evidence but plenty of facts.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Another way to put it. How does Bahaullah address people who do not see peace through unity?

Explain a model that will create a lasting peace, that has no unity, or in other words, how can Peace be found without a unity of purpose?

Is there an example in the past where there was peace without unity? Remember, peace now has to be global, as the world is now a very small place, where one button can start the end of us all, or one super virus can wipe us all out.

Regards Tony

 

[bobhikes]

I can see there is an ability of perception, that is given to man, which I see has limits. It would mean then, as Truth is Truth, the use of our rational faculty gives us the Truths we accept.

Regards Tony

I like the statement but,

I would say the ability of perceptional bias allows us to set the truth's we want to see and also that other life may have this ability not only man.

this may just be the way I am understanding your statement.

 

[Samael_Khan]

This is complimentary to the thread 'The Future: Humans'. This is about humanities future. It is in a debate section as to enable all to have input. I see our response to threads such as this help guide us on to a better future.

View attachment 39874

The source I will use is from the Baha'i Faith and I make it clear from the start, you are not being asked to be a Baha'i, you are not being compelled to participate in this thread, I offer this aspect of my Faith as the solution to the worlds current issues, as the solution has, I see, been given.

The solution given by Baha'u'llah, was all summed up in an example Baha'u'llah left as a prosperity for humanity. It was the gift of His son who became known as Abdul'baha.We have been told to Look at Abdul'Baha, follow Abdul'baha and be as Abdul'baha was. What is being said was Look at His Life, follow how he lived that life and be as he was, each and all of us. Not to worship Abdul'baha, but to live in servitude to each other as he did.

I see that is the future, us being able to be as Abdul'Baha was. It gives all of us a challenge;

Can we be the embodiment of such a pure Love?
Can we be the embodiment of such a selfless service to Humanity?

We can all benefit from such a way of life. Is there any other way?
View attachment 39875
Regards Tony

Truth is absolute.

This is different to what we view as true at the moment, as what we consider true is based on many variables, which in summary is the limited amount of information we have about the world as well as our own subjective interpretation of reality.

Science can get us closest to certainty regarding many things, but the more we advance technologically, the more we will realise how limited our current technological capabilities are in examining our surroundings.

Studying humanity and its history, humans will never be the embodiment of love or selfless service because people think differently. And depending on what the meaning of love and self sacrifice is, I am sure most humans would not want to embody those things either.

I also do not see how educating everybody and creating equality between men and women would end the foundations of war. Innate desires to attain Power and Greed themselves are the foundations for many wars and are part of the rest.

 

[Samael_Khan]

And dolphins may be space travellers who have settled her because they like the fish. See where such a claim gets you?

We have spoken of atheism previously, i would have though you would have leaned the meaning of atheism by now, it seems not. So here it s again.

Atheism : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Nothing more, nothing less.

It is the only reality that anyone has evidence for.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Explain a model that will create a lasting peace, that has no unity, or in other words, how can Peace be found without a unity of purpose?

Is there an example in the past where there was peace without unity? Remember, peace now has to be global, as the world is now a very small place, where one button can start the end of us all, or one super virus can wipe us all out.

Regards Tony

Unity in this case not having the same foundation but the same goal because of own foundations. What model would one have that everyone would agree with given our foundations are different 'not' our goals?

Like my example I gave again. If one person actually wanted war against enemies (not as means of sporadic killing but a means to kill enemies to save the innocent) and another decided no killing enemies are necessary, there is no unity. They both have the same goals and intentions: to save mankind. They both agree with the intentions (like I mentioned there is no debate on the intentions themselves), but they disagree with the method.

They still want unity and peace but their methods of going about it are different. How do you address this?

Please say you don't know if you don't. It's not a debate. I'm asking about a method of peace.

By the way. I can't meet Bahaullah and answer this question. Why didn't you answer it before I mentioned the same question from Bahaullah's perspective-if both of you share the same belief?