Penn Jillette, atheist magician of Penn and Teller, said it well: “I, myself, have raped and killed everyone I want to ... and the number for both is zero.”
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What harm is there in NOT believing God ?
- Thread starter chinu
- Start date
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Buddha said "life consists of suffering, pain, and misery"
Nirvana is the ultimate spiritual goal in Buddhism and marks the soteriological release from rebirths in saṃsāra
Until Nirvana
A) There is harm in "believing in God"
B) There is harm in "NOT believing in God"
Well... considering the gods are quite literally the universe, reality, everything, and then some? Not believing in any of those things would be a very serious mental health problem. I've yet to meet anyone who actually has this mental health problem, though; I've yet to meet anyone who doesn't believe in the gods (aka, the universe, reality, everything, and then some). It's why I don't believe in atheists. I believe in humans who don't grant the title "god" for things that they utterly depend upon for having functioning lives (or lives at all) for some reason, and those people can be "atheists" or "theists." By extension, refusal to believe in anything that is greater than oneself or that one depends upon for existing sure does cultivate an extreme level of hubris and narcissism. That's also (usually) lacking in people who call themselves "atheists" or "theists."
Did I mention how useless the terms "atheist" and "theist" are? I'm mentioning it now.
Did I mention how useless the terms "atheist" and "theist" are? I'm mentioning it now.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Beliefs inform actions. But the harm is the action, not the belief. Not believing does not inform actions.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
You missed my point, but I admit I did not put it in a way easy to see
There is no harm. Superficial belief is virtually meaningless. I know atheists whose actions are more Godly than some who call themselves believers (at the top of their voices).
Atheists tend to believe in knowing the truth and avoiding what seems fantasy. That, to me, is a characteristic of those on the spiritual path. We call it "Truth" not "truth" and our fantasy is the world of maya, but my time as an atheist caused me to value and appreciate those who are atheists.
ppp
Well-Known Member
Oh? What was your point? A little easier to see, please.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Can make assumptions only. Nothing concrete.
Eyes to See
Well-Known Member
firedragon
Veteran Member
You know what. Im curious. Is there much teachings of rebirth and nirvana is the solution to rebirth in any of the Thripitika?
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
According to Buddha (and all agree) life is full of suffering, pain and misery or worse (there is harm)Oh? What was your point? A little easier to see, please.
According to Buddha there is 1 way out, and that is Nirvana
So, until Nirvana is reached, "there is harm (=pain)"
For both who believe and not believe
Nirvana has neither of these
So, harm (=pain) is inherent in being born
(it's a little different view from the one we normally see; it's from Buddha POV)
ppp
Well-Known Member
You are saying that harm exists in life irrespective of belief. I agree. But not everything causes harm. And while some lives are actually full of suffering, most lives are only speckled with it to varying degrees.
Last edited by a moderator:
chinu
chinu
Friend, thank for the video post, and everything explained beautifully.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
Yeah I have heard that one before, it's quite goodHaven't you heard a story of a man sitting on a rooftop. Water is rising. A few boats with come along offering help. Man insist "God must come to help me". Man drowns coming at the "Gate of Heaven", blaming God for not rescuing him. to which God answers "I send many people with boats" YOU FOOL ?
God is, because there are believers. His ontology is a sort of variant of Cartesian metaphysics: you don’t think, therefore He is
ciao
- viole
I agree.
But I don't believe that God cares about anything. God hasn't the human characteristics religion is founded upon. Plans, wishes, love, knowledge, emotions, those are all characteristics a limited, sentient, "being" would have.
God isn't like that. Anybody can tell that by observing Creation.
Tom
Yes I have.Haven't you heard a story of a man sitting on a rooftop. Water is rising. A few boats with come along offering help. Man insist "God must come to help me". Man drowns coming at the "Gate of Heaven", blaming God for not rescuing him. to which God answers "I send many people with boats" YOU FOOL ?
It's a great story, illustrating the concept that God doesn't care what happens to you.
But people might.
Tom
Sorry, I missed to write in the story that there were many other people who were crying for help
If God was able to send people to where he was, why the need to cry for a help
while actually they were sent by God to help, nice story but needs some modifications
So,
The guy's belief in God not only resulted in his own untimely death, but that of others?
Everyone would have been better off if he hadn't believed in God?
What's the title of this thread, again?
Tom
InvestigateTruth
Well-Known Member
I believe in God who frequently sent Revelations to guide humanity in each age. The harm is, we will be deprived of the God's guidance, which is necessary for us to be spiritually happy and healthy. However, if a person only believes in God, but does not believe in His revelation or guidence, in my opinion, that has no benefit, and is practically the same as disbelief in God.
ppp
Well-Known Member
I am happy and healthy without a god's guidance. And the world is full of religious people who are spiritually happy and healthy with your god's guidance; some of whom have one god, multiple gods, or no gods at all.