1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured To those who do not believe in spiritual beings (Gods, Buddhas and so on)

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by Conscious thoughts, Feb 9, 2020.

  1. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    12,246
    Ratings:
    +18,063
    Religion:
    Sanatana Dharma
    Thank you for elaborating.

    Then you are in agreement that unless one experiences the color purple for themselves, the experience is subject to someone else's perspective and/or experience.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    3,345
    Ratings:
    +2,930
    Religion:
    Egregious Cyber Hippy
    As I was taught in the context of Mahamudra - enlightened mind is the coemergence of nirvana and samsara.

    You have an idealized image of spiritual beings IMO.
    Be aware that your mind will follow the thoughts you persevere in. If you imagine spiritual beings, you will have ‘experiences’ of spiritual beings.

    I would expect to see or hear what I expect to see or hear.
    In fact I did. It was interesting.
     
  3. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    19,017
    Ratings:
    +22,039
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    All experiences of other people is always subject to someone else's perspective. But the perspective of others can also be faulty (as can my own). So I am concerned about the consistency, especially in the face of independent observers, to determine if the phenomenon is real and what it actually refers to. Many times people can misinterpret their experiences (visual illusions are a good example of the problem), so that is another source of my skepticism about some classes of experience.
     
  4. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    3,345
    Ratings:
    +2,930
    Religion:
    Egregious Cyber Hippy
    Problem ? I’ve spent many a happy hour misinterpreting my experiences. :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    31,126
    Ratings:
    +10,408
    Religion:
    Process of Spiritual Healing
    I've never believed in gods, buddhas, deities, and so forth. So, I don't know what I'd expect to see with these things.

    Which is ironic because I do know spirits of loved ones exist and spirits of people in general. Belief is an interesting word because I can believe that I can fly and maybe it will help me in my life, but that does not make it true. The thing is: what is wrong with that?

    Anyway. I don't know what makes us see the supernatural if you mean deity.

    1. Skepticism: Pretty much based on what we are told the supernatural is "supposed" to be like. Consciousness/mysticism/god/spirit/so have you and not what one experiences him or herself. So, if you don't believe in what I listed, you don't believe in the supernatural hence an atheist.

    2. Disinterest: Millions of people love mystery, why does that mean the rest of the population needs to? Is it a fault that the minority of disinterested parties are some how missing out on something?

    3. Limited definitions: God is christian god. (What about pagan? Hindu? Pantheist? I don't know. Witchcraft?) Kind of like saying, I don't like chocolate cake, therefore I don't like cake at all.

    I never had a "spiritual" experience. I've had spirit-ual experiences which were pretty concrete but nothing abstract like the workings of the cosmos, auras, and things like that. No "higher power". Deceased ancestors spirits is exactly what/who they are. Not higher. Not lower. Not mystical. Why does it need to be all that to be functioning and relating in everyday reality? What earns supernatural our special attention?

    4. Misguided criteria. God is a person in the sky. So, if I don't see and hear this person, god does not exist. Not minding that the god they speak of is not the god abrahamics speak of and definitely not the gods other religious speak of.

    5. Assuming all abrahamics define god the same way
    Some UUs are christian and they explain god in one way.
    JW explain god one way and some protestants have interesting ways to explain god that isn't quite deified as one would think of Zues and Apollo.

    6. Miscategorization: Buddhas, Christian God, and Pagan gods are totally different context, content, and definition. One would need to be more specific? Which is kind of hard since abrahamics have different versions of god and his edicts.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    4,457
    Ratings:
    +3,176
    Religion:
    atheist
    First you'd have to tell me how you are defining a god or a spiritual being. After that if I still don't see or hear your god or spiritual being you would then have to tell me what was wrong with how I am looking at it and what the proper way of looking at it would be in order for me to see or hear your god or spiritual being.

    When I've done this with people in the past the thing I am most often told that I'm doing wrong is that I lack faith. In order to do it properly I'm supposed to somehow FIRST have faith that it is true and THEN I'll be provided with evidence that my faith wasn't misplaced. However, I am simply not capable of accepting any claim of significance on mere faith.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    37,822
    Ratings:
    +22,396
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Is any sort of belief in a higher power necessary for spirituality? I don't think so. But then the concept of a "spiritual realm" as any thing in reality does not seem to be reasonable to me.
     
  8. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    3,345
    Ratings:
    +2,930
    Religion:
    Egregious Cyber Hippy
    I think it comes from legendising and mythologising altered states.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    3,844
    Ratings:
    +2,527
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    As far as I know, "Buddha" never claimed to be a god, and I don't know of anyone who believes in multiple Buddhas.
     
  10. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    3,997
    Ratings:
    +1,715
    I'm not quite there on spiritual beings. I think of the eternal as a mental/emotional force that produces life forms from it's unknowable substance. I suppose this force has an ultimate source in spiritual beings. But I do not see how.

    Speak the language of the universe, and all its mental constructs. Reveal the modus operandi of the program we are in. Then I'll know instead of wonder.

    You would have to uncover what exists beyond our universe.
     
  11. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    3,345
    Ratings:
    +2,930
    Religion:
    Egregious Cyber Hippy
    There are various offshoots of Buddhism that do assert he is a god, or the god. That is to be expected, given human nature.

    Regarding multiple Buddhas, anyone who realises what Gautama realised is a Buddha, by definition.
     
  12. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    59,257
    Ratings:
    +17,144
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    What reason do I have to think that this is possible?

    The alternate possibility - i.e. that people who claim to have experienced these things are just deluded - also agrees with the facts and it already works within my current paradigm.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. EtuMalku

    EtuMalku MERCURÆN LUCIFERIAN

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,633
    Ratings:
    +904
    Religion:
    H☿D
    Maybe it's because we don't live in a world of delusion and understand that these spiritual creatures are archetypal in structure, egregores/thoughtforms and that they are experienced because the brain interacts between the cortex, hypothalamus, hippocampus, amygdala and the limbic system. Parietal Lobe disinhibition can result in altered senses of the body in space, and dissolution of the sense of self. The Temporal lobes are involved in visual processing that creates vivid 3D representations (allows us to design the spiritual creatures we are seeking). Agency allows for the perception that such a spiritual creature is actually acting on its own accord.

    i.e. God is a fictional character in a book. Our right temporal lobe and the associated limbic lobe is the hub of the 'god' experience, a designed divine agency.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    32,499
    Ratings:
    +13,273
    Religion:
    Philosophical Buddhism
    I've always been adamant that it will take a God to know a God.

    Not a human being to know a God.

    So far, everything points to God being a mental puppet. An extension of its master pulling its strings and making it say or do whatever a person wants it to.


     
  15. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    5,785
    Ratings:
    +4,772
    Religion:
    none
    There can be multiple reasons for that.
    1. With the claim of spiritual beings often comes a demand of exceptional treatment, When, for example, YEC demand that their stories are taught in science class, even though they didn't go through the usual process of scientific theory building. In those cases the sceptic works as a consumer protector. He warns about a potential fraud who wants to extract resources from an audience (even though that resource may be just attention).
    This is a public service.
    2. When someone introduces a (new) idea of seeing things, a hypothesis, a belief (system), s/he implicitly asks for a discussion of that idea. We give our valuable input.
    That is a personal service.

    We are here to serve and protect, tirelessly, unpaid and sometimes unloved.
     
  16. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    16,633
    Ratings:
    +7,916
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    This expectation of fallible humans is a stretch. I believe in God, but I do not expect God to talk to nor tell me personally anything. Too many people from diverse conflicting beliefs claim God talks to to them and they believe in the one true God. God reveals the attributes of God through the universal nature of our physical existence and humanity. The evidence indicates an evolving spiritual nature of humanity as it reflects in the evolving physical nature of our physical existence. This harmony and unity of the universal nature of God's Creation is the only rational conclusion for the existence of God. The evidence indicates that the many diverse conflicting views of God is to a large degree the human perspective and burdened by ancient cultures.

    I have empathy for the agnostic and atheist worldviews when faced with the conflicting out of touch diversity of ancient cultural view of the 'Source' some call God(s). They are far more reasonable than ancient worldviews clinging ancient views of our existence.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Howard Is

    Howard Is Lucky Mud

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    3,345
    Ratings:
    +2,930
    Religion:
    Egregious Cyber Hippy
    I’ll see it when I believe it.
     
  18. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    13,298
    Ratings:
    +8,406
    Religion:
    Osmanli Nakshibedi Way, Sufism
    Faith is only the beginning that some "need" to be able to see, whereas Wisdom of the spiritual realm is something we cultivate over time :)
     
  19. Ayjaydee

    Ayjaydee Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2020
    Messages:
    777
    Ratings:
    +258
    Religion:
    Therevada Buddhism
    Buddha was not supernatural, he was a man
     
  20. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    13,298
    Ratings:
    +8,406
    Religion:
    Osmanli Nakshibedi Way, Sufism
    Gautama was a man. Yes but become an enlighten being when realizing nibbana. His wisdom rose above ordinary man
     
Loading...