To those who do not believe in spiritual beings (Gods, Buddhas and so on)

[stvdv]

May it be that you are just not able to see or hear the supernatural beings that are called Gods, Buddhas, and so on? Maybe you just look at it the wrong way? or your spiritual vision is not tuned to the right frequency? Would it be possible for you to explain what you expect to see or hear to get your proof of an existence of God or other spiritual beings?

I like to have 100% proof.

I surrendered to my Master and had quite some faith in Him. But only small proofs. But then He made a claim, that I could use to get the ultimate proof.

My Master told me "you only die if I want"

On several occasions I took poison that should have killed me. After a dozen or so, my Master appeared in my dream and told me "if you take it, it's my duty to take it out".

I see it as with exams. I did engineering. I was not laying in bed telling the teacher "give me a degree (proof) then I start to study". I did the hard work for 5 years then the Master (teacher) gave me my degree (proof).

When I met Sai Baba, claiming to be omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent I decided to give Him the benefit of the doubt and study double the time I did for engineering, so 10 years.

After I think 20 years He gave me the solid proof of taking out the poison I took in. Thereby proving to me His omniscience, omnipresence and omnipotence.

And I know now why in India they say "Guru is God". Spirituality is real and it's fun

It is all about "how much you want something and how much you are willing to give up for it"

 

[Ayjaydee]

Gautama was a man. Yes but become an enlighten being when realizing nibbana. His wisdom rose above ordinary man

Yes an enlightened man but still just a man. Nothing supernatural

 

[stvdv]

Yes an enlightened man but still just a man. Nothing supernatural

You seem to have this "supernatural" characteristic of being omniscient. Quite a claim.

 

[Ayjaydee]

You seem to have this "supernatural" characteristic of being omniscient. Quite a claim.

Got any contrary evidence? As everything written about a guy who lived 2500 years ago and left no written claims of his own, it's obviously an opinion

 

[Spirit of Light]

Got any contrary evidence? As everything written about a guy who lived 2500 years ago and left no written claims of his own, it's obviously an opinion

Can i ask what part of Theravada teaching or Suttas you study to have your view of Buddhism and Buddha? I dont say you are wrong, i just saw it very differently when i my self studied Theravada teachings, my views at that time was very similar to Ajahn brahm.
But after i converted away from Buddhism my understandings have become different

 

[QuestioningMind]

Faith is only the beginning that some "need" to be able to see, whereas Wisdom of the spiritual realm is something we cultivate over time

Since people can have faith in virtually anything, even things that are completely contradictory, faith can never be a reliable path to the truth.

I'm still waiting to hear what god and a spiritual being means. And now I need a definition of what 'wisdom of the spiritual realm' means. Thus far you've just given me terms that have no concrete meaning to me.

 

[Ayjaydee]

Can i ask what part of Theravada teaching or Suttas you study to have your view of Buddhism and Buddha? I dont say you are wrong, i just saw it very differently when i my self studied Theravada teachings, my views at that time was very similar to Ajahn brahm.
But after i converted away from Buddhism my understandings have become different

Did Brahm ever claim buddha was anything more than an enlightened man?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Since people can have faith in virtually anything, even things that are completely contradictory, faith can never be a reliable path to the truth.

I'm still waiting to hear what god and a spiritual being means. And now I need a definition of what 'wisdom of the spiritual realm' means. Thus far you've just given me terms that have no concrete meaning to me.

In my understanding of God or Buddha it is awakened beings, meaning they see the truth as it truly are, at their level of awakening. so yes even Gods have different understanding of the purest truth.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Did Brahm ever claim buddha was anything more than an enlightened man?

The man who we call Buddha or Sakyamuni was only a man in flesh when he was here 2500 years ago, and even the buddha is not here now. because it is a state of mind, But what Brahm do say is that Sakyamuni did have some extraordenary abilities that an ordenary person does not have, and the reason Buddha had this abilities was because of his cultivation of mind, his mind was above normal. But if you saw him in front of you, yes he look just like a normal person when he was on earth.

 

[Ayjaydee]

The man who we call Buddha or Sakyamuni was only a man in flesh when he was here 2500 years ago, and even the buddha is not here now. because it is a state of mind, But what Brahm do say is that Sakyamuni did have some extraordenary abilities that an ordenary person does not have, and the reason Buddha had this abilities was because of his cultivation of mind, his mind was above normal. But if you saw him in front of you, yes he look just like a normal person when he was on earth.

And you equate his abilities with the supernatural?

 

[Mock Turtle]

May it be that you are just not able to see or hear the supernatural beings that are called Gods, Buddhas, and so on? Maybe you just look at it the wrong way? or your spiritual vision is not tuned to the right frequency? Would it be possible for you to explain what you expect to see or hear to get your proof of an existence of God or other spiritual beings?

Can't answer for others but - I am well aware of sometimes having thoughts that don't coincide with reality (inner voice), such that I can not necessarily trust such all or much of the time, and also I can experience things that seem almost on a different level - like flow or love-at-first-sight - but these might be explained by various processes going on such that I will be rather cautious as to anything I experience. I might be tempted to put any particular meaning on such and I would be dishonest if I did so if this didn't correspond with reality. That is my problem, particularly when I haven't ever had any such religious experiences, and I just don't believe the old mantra - one has to have faith before evidence is provided - seek and it will be given. Just doesn't make any sense to me. I fear my interest in psychology has ruined me for a religious life.

 

[Spirit of Light]

And you equate his abilities with the supernatural?

Yes, because ordenary man have not cultivated those abilities to arise. But when one do get those abilities they are not meant for bragging or show off, they are stricktly a result of once cultivation.

 

[Ayjaydee]

Yes, because ordenary man have not cultivated those abilities to arise. But when one do get those abilities they are not meant for bragging or show off, they are stricktly a result of once cultivation.

But arhants may have. Does that make them supernatural as well?

 

[Spirit of Light]

But arhants may have. Does that make them supernatural as well?

they are enlighten to yes

 

[Ayjaydee]

Yes, because ordenary man have not cultivated those abilities to arise. But when one do get those abilities they are not meant for bragging or show off, they are stricktly a result of once cultivation.

And the OP refers to the existence of a supernatural being
buddha no longer exists.

 

[Ayjaydee]

they are enlighten to yes

Well if your definition means not normal, special etc ok
Personally I stick with what I feel the intent of the OP meant

 

[Spirit of Light]

they are enlighten to yes

There are 4 stages of enlightenment in Buddhism, Stream entrer, once returner, never returner, and arahant. In buddhism only the teacher Sakyamuni is seen as a fully developed buddha

 

[Ayjaydee]

There are 4 stages of enlightenment in Buddhism, Stream entrer, once returner, never returner, and arahant. In buddhism only the teacher Sakyamuni is seen as a fully developed buddha

Was

 

[Spirit of Light]

Was

What do you mean?

 

[Ayjaydee]

What do you mean?

He was a fully developed buddha, hes dead now