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To those who do not believe in spiritual beings (Gods, Buddhas and so on)

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
May it be that you are just not able to see or hear the supernatural beings that are called Gods, Buddhas, and so on? Maybe you just look at it the wrong way? or your spiritual vision is not tuned to the right frequency? Would it be possible for you to explain what you expect to see or hear to get your proof of an existence of God or other spiritual beings?
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
May it be that you are just not able to see or hear the supernatural beings that are called Gods, Buddhas, and so on? Maybe you just look at it the wrong way? or your spiritual vision is not tuned to the right frequency? Would it be possible for you to explain what you expect to see or hear to get your proof of an existence of God or other spiritual beings?
In regards to Gods at least. If we are talking all powerful, no limits etc. Then I would require them to be able to convince me pretty easy, so that would be my requirement for them at least.

In regards to supernatural beings and we disregards Gods, so we are talking ghosts, spirits etc. That would probably be a lot more difficult, as at least from my understanding of them, they are not all powerful and therefore unable to just convince me.

A good start would be for someone to actually put forward an experiment that could demonstrate that they exist and that we are actually talking about such things. Obviously after having given a clear definition of what exactly a spirit or soul is suppose to be.
But also in regards to what you are writing, I would start by asking you to demonstrate that a frequency of which you are talking about actually exist and if you could define that for me as well, as I have no idea what you mean. :)
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
I can demonstrate the existence of color to a blind person. They may not be able to experience it the same way as I do, but they can be convinced there is a phenomenon of color that is consistently experienced by others.

I have not found much to be consistent in the descriptions of experiences of spiritual beings.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
In regards to Gods at least. If we are talking all powerful, no limits etc. Then I would require them to be able to convince me pretty easy, so that would be my requirement for them at least.

In regards to supernatural beings and we disregards Gods, so we are talking ghosts, spirits etc. That would probably be a lot more difficult, as at least from my understanding of them, they are not all powerful and therefore unable to just convince me.

A good start would be for someone to actually put forward an experiment that could demonstrate that they exist and that we are actually talking about such things. Obviously after having given a clear definition of what exactly a spirit or soul is suppose to be.
But also in regards to what you are writing, I would start by asking you to demonstrate that a frequency of which you are talking about actually exist and if you could define that for me as well, as I have no idea what you mean. :)
I can try to explain frequency in this form :) Human beings are very dense in form, but still our body vibrate in a certain frequency, the spiritual being's existence are of very light density, and thereby have very high vibration and appear in other dimension that hold this form of vibration. but to see them or feel them, we humans must heighten our frequency to become lighter and less dense too. only then can we truly experience the spiritual beings. this is my understanding explained in a very short way
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Your argument sounds like "You can 't prove me wrong". When if you want to convince other people the right approach is to convince with evidence. The "You can't prove me wrong" argument has never changed a Muslim into a Christian or vice versa. It is why war is so often chosen to change people's minds historically. "Say I am right or die" is not very moral, but it can be very convincing.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Your argument sounds like "You can 't prove me wrong". When if you want to convince other people the right approach is to convince with evidence. The "You can't prove me wrong" argument has never changed a Muslim into a Christian or vice versa. It is why war is so often chosen to change people's minds historically. "Say I am right or die" is not very moral, but it can be very convincing.
I have no wish to prove you wrong or right, i just trying to understand how none believers think, and why they always want to debunk believers.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I can demonstrate the existence of color to a blind person. They may not be able to experience it the same way as I do, but they can be convinced there is a phenomenon of color that is consistently experienced by others.

I have not found much to be consistent in the descriptions of experiences of spiritual beings.

Ok. Explain purple.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I have no wish to prove you wrong or right, i just trying to understand how none believers think, and why they always want to debunk believers.
What gets debunked here are specific beliefs that are demonstrably wrong. No one is trying to debunk god in general. But if one claims that something exists he should have a good reason to believe. He should be able to support his beliefs. We have not seen very much of that.

So not trying to debunk your beliefs. Simply asking why you believe.
 

Howard Is

Lucky Mud
May it be that you are just not able to see or hear the supernatural beings that are called Gods, Buddhas, and so on? Maybe you just look at it the wrong way? or your spiritual vision is not tuned to the right frequency? Would it be possible for you to explain what you expect to see or hear to get your proof of an existence of God or other spiritual beings?

Maybe your idea that you and I are not ‘supernatural’ needs examination.

The dichotomy of ‘spiritual beings’ and ‘the rest of us’ is questionable. It is a dualism which doesn’t stand up to analysis from a dharmic point of view.
 

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
Potentially irrelevant:

Bertrand Russell, Religion and Science (1935):
  • Catholics, but not Protestants, may have visions in which the Virgin appears ; Christians and Mohammedans, but not Buddhists, may have great truths revealed to them by the Archangel Gabriel ; the Chinese mystics of the Tao tell us, as a direct result of their central doctrine, that all government is bad, whereas most European and Mohammedan mystics, with equal confidence, urge submission to constituted authority. As regards the points where they differ, each group will argue that the other groups are untrustworthy ; we might, therefore, if we were content with a mere forensic triumph, point out that most mystics think most other mystics mistaken on most points.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
I can try to explain frequency in this form :) Human beings are very dense in form, but still our body vibrate in a certain frequency, the spiritual being's existence are of very light density, and thereby have very high vibration and appear in other dimension that hold this form of vibration. but to see them or feel them, we humans must heighten our frequency to become lighter and less dense too. only then can we truly experience the spiritual beings. this is my understanding explained in a very short way
I can understand what you are saying, don't get me wrong. But for instance this sentence and why I would require more and I think you would agree, why that makes sense.

...spiritual being's existence are of very light density
Not only do I have to presume that spiritual beings exists, but also accept certain properties for them, like they have very light density. Who figured that out and how did they do it?

If we assume that there is something, how do you know that it is a spiritual being and not just a somewhat rare or yet to be understood natural phenomena? Meaning how do we know the difference without some sort of way to exclude one or the other.

And this is only those few words in that sentences, only for you to very soon after throw in the words "..other dimension" so I would have to stop here as well, and ask what you mean and how you could demonstrate it.

Don't get me wrong, because I think a lot of people think that atheists just wont accept anything, just because that is how we are. (Not saying that you are like that). But its not like we are against these things, anymore than you or anyone else for that matter, would expect clear evidence, if someone said that they had been abducted by aliens. No one should just run with it.

So I get what you are saying, but I still don't know what is meant with frequency or other dimensions and how one would demonstrate it.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
What gets debunked here are specific beliefs that are demonstrably wrong. No one is trying to debunk god in general. But if one claims that something exists he should have a good reason to believe. He should be able to support his beliefs. We have not seen very much of that.

So not trying to debunk your beliefs. Simply asking why you believe.
To me belief is not the main part of spiritual life, but a part of it as a basis for further understanding of the wisdom that arise through spiritual practice, and practice it every day. And when wisdom about spiritual realm arise this is the moment we can "see" the spiritual beings. , but we do not see them with our physical eyes, we can see because spiritual eye (third eye) has opened, this is why some spiritual practicing people can see god as they say, but an atheist with no wisdom eye open can not see, it all come from practicing the teachings
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I can understand what you are saying, don't get me wrong. But for instance this sentence and why I would require more and I think you would agree, why that makes sense.

...spiritual being's existence are of very light density
Not only do I have to presume that spiritual beings exists, but also accept certain properties for them, like they have very light density. Who figured that out and how did they do it?

If we assume that there is something, how do you know that it is a spiritual being and not just a somewhat rare or yet to be understood natural phenomena? Meaning how do we know the difference without some sort of way to exclude one or the other.

And this is only those few words in that sentences, only for you to very soon after throw in the words "..other dimension" so I would have to stop here as well, and ask what you mean and how you could demonstrate it.

Don't get me wrong, because I think a lot of people think that atheists just wont accept anything, just because that is how we are. (Not saying that you are like that). But its not like we are against these things, anymore than you or anyone else for that matter, would expect clear evidence, if someone said that they had been abducted by aliens. No one should just run with it.

So I get what you are saying, but I still don't know what is meant with frequency or other dimensions and how one would demonstrate it.
The understanding of it comes from daily practice of the chosen spiritual teaching. it opens our mind to wisdom of the spiritual realms
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
**MOD POST**

This thread is posted in Religions Q&A. This is not a debate forum.

Posts inciting or soliciting debate are subject to moderation under Rule 10.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Maybe your idea that you and I are not ‘supernatural’ needs examination.

The dichotomy of ‘spiritual beings’ and ‘the rest of us’ is questionable. It is a dualism which doesn’t stand up to analysis from a dharmic point of view.
Human beings are full of karma, how could we be fully spiritual beings or supernatural beings when we carry so much karmic substance?
 

Howard Is

Lucky Mud
but we do not see them with our physical eyes, we can see because spiritual eye (third eye) has opened, this is why some spiritual practicing people can see god as they say, but an atheist with no wisdom eye open can not see,

As I understand it, Ajna chakra (the third eye) is the function of introspection - the capacity to observe our own minds.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Ok. Explain purple.

There are several possible answers to that.

First, I did not claim to be able to explain the sensation of purple to a blind person. I said I can make that blind person understand that there is a property that is being consistently described by those claiming to see.

So, for example, I can have a variety of objects. the blind person could verify some of their characteristics by touch. Then sighted people can come in, one-by-one and describe that object. That they give consistent descriptions independently of each other would be evidence for the blind person that the colors mentioned are actual properties that sighted people can detect and the blind person not.

Alternatively, a blind person could use a prism to separate out the different wavelengths of light and verify that a certain range of wavelengths is consistently described as 'purple' by people who are sighted. This can be done in a way very similar to how we can detect and verify the properties of infrared light. We can verify, for example, that bees see some ultraviolet and the range of frequencies of light they can see even if we cannot see them ourselves.

Once again, my claim is that I can convince a blind person that there is an actual property that sighted people detect, since they *do so in a consistent way*. At no point do they actually have to experience color themselves to know that it exists and what its properties are.

I don't want to get this into a debate on this forum. This is how I respond to the OP concerning supernatural beings. I would look for a similar consistency to what a blind person would for colors.
 
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