YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
I'd be greatly entertained if you could explain the nature of my so-called "straw man". Good luck.
You could not be more wrong. The video did not cause me the slightest discomfort.
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To BElieve or not to BElieve???
- Thread starter Mohsen
- Start date
Mohsen
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
Get Netflix
I hope not!!! But I’m “probably” gonna be let down by my hope in you being ok about the atheist... oh I mean so called atheist in the video lol
It would pain me know that you had assumed his position based on some gut feeling that cannot be reasoned scientifically
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
You are not very good at this. Perhaps it's best if you stop while you think you are ahead.Get Netflix
I hope not!!! But I’m “probably” gonna be let down by my hope in you being ok about the atheist... oh I mean so called atheist in the video lol
It would pain me know that you had assumed his position based on some gut feeling that cannot be reasoned scientifically
Mohsen
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
Would you like me to?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
It doesn't matter to me. Just friendly advice. I did love your response to my request to show me my supposed straw man. That was rich.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
I stopped watching when the speaker said a god is necessary for the existence of things. That is an unproven assumption which I reject, therefore, the rest of the argument has no validity for me.
I didn't think he wasn't a atheist, but I did think he didn't seem to understand atheism very well.
I watched about half before seeing your response, and agree with you at least the part I watched.
Did it seem at the end the Muslim won over the atheist?
NVM, I skipped to the end. The atheist seems pretty agreeable to the points being made by the Muslim towards the end.
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Maybe it is just me, but it feels like he is almost afraid of actually letting the supposed atheist speak at all.
Forget his difficulty with understanding what atheism is all about. I have come to suspect that he has a hard time understanding theism as well.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
If in fact this is a genuine atheist in the video, the theist clearly picked one who was willing to listen to one unsubstantiated claim after another without ever challenging them. Not sure what you hoped to demonstrate by this exchange. That the theist makes all sorts of unverifiable claims and rarely allows the person he's talking with to actually respond?
stvdv
Veteran Member
To believe or not to believe?:
Thanks for sharing. The title got me really curious. First thought was "this is a really good first question". Next question might be "what to believe?". Not sure if one can separate the two though. Third question could then be "what do you think of beliefs other than yours"?
The Muslim man really tried his best to find a basis for scientifically answering the above question. I was really interested, hoping to learn howto answer this question in a kind of debate-way. But I didn't get that out of this.
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sealchan
Well-Known Member
I'm enjoying this...got to about the 18 minute mark...my initial impression here is that Hussein is coming from a human values perspective while the atheist is coming from a more logical perspective...and this is the main distinction between the value of scientific and religious truth.
I expect that Hussein is not a Jungian and so will not mention Jung's notion that there are two distinct types of rational cognition: thinking and feeling. My own definition for reason and rationality is thus...
Rationality is the process of making consistent truth statements in a way as comprehensive and simultaneously as consistent as possible through the medium of human language. There are two types of rationality or two foci for the integration of truth statements: logic and value. Logic attempts to make whole and consistent the meaning and relationship between terms or words in the human language between individuals such that each "holds" the same understanding. Value attempts to make whole and consistent the meaning and relationship between "importances" and their instantiation within the individual that "holds" these "importances".
People develop psychologically a personality that becomes biased toward one mode of being rational over the other. Additionally, within certain spheres of human culture and interaction, a mode of rationality can predominate over another.
So in science we have a "thinking" mode where scientific terms must be well-defined and precisely understood (to the detriment of the "softer" sciences) as well as reproducible as experiences that anyone may have. In religion (at least in the Abrahamic religions) we have a "feeling" bias which is to say that the understanding and integration of values or "importances" is what is sought and the inclusion of the individual's subjective perspective as a member of a community of knowers and an entity within a great creation is what is the focus.
These two systems use the same words in the same language but the underlying cognitive-brain systems involved generate different goals that two individuals, unknowingly speaking across this cognitive divide, will never settle into a mutual united understanding.
We, human beings, are not mono-modal truth knowers but we contain both rational and irrational brain-based cognitive facilities for knowing truth and these cognitive facilities are differentially applied in different communities which themselves represent different ways of knowing.
I will try to come back and finish the video at a later time.
Thanks!
Mohsen
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
Hey salaam to you
I've been busy with work. It's been a little crazy tbh. Hope you been well?I've been watching speakers corner vids for a long time. But they are so "us vs them" that it's hard to find people just talking, instead of arguing.
This video is rare like that, both the atheist and the muslim have nice manners and can understand each others points without becoming offended... which is more than what I can say of some so called evolved people in this thread lol!!!
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Is science the opposite of atheism?
Mohsen
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
science is not a belief system, is it? it's a tool which helps us to understand the processes within observable phenomena!
Yeah, I've been alright. I hope you can catch a break soon.Hey salaam to you
I'm not a fan of arguing either. I'm still a little concerned about the one-sided feel of this video though. I think it could have been opened up to be more of a conversation instead of someone reacting unprepared to a list of talking points. I'd feel like my ideas weren't being respected too well if I were in the same position. It seems like some of the other people in this thread have some points with their criticism that I wouldn't reject so quickly.
I also don't think this person is a great representative of atheism as a whole (maybe only as an individual). It might be worthwhile to get an idea of what other atheists here believe, as opposed to him. I'd be willing to have that conversation with you if you'd like.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Im going off the video conversation in relation to god not the dictionary; I know that.
james blunt
Well-Known Member
As-salamu alaykum
Every person on the planet has to believe in God
Defining God - The origin of the Universe.
It is not a belief that the Universe began, it is fact, everyone has to accept God, then stop arguing the semantics. God needs no description or falsifiable testament, God is the origin of the Universe, simple acceptance for all, even atheists.
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
@YmirGF is the hero we need, but not the one we deserve. Because he can take it. He's a silent guardian. A watchful protector.
james blunt
Well-Known Member
You have no religion, would you accept God to be true if defined only as the origin of the universe?