The War on Christmas

[Humanistheart]

Alright, let's go all the way back to the beginnning, shall we?

Here HH makes a point about suicide around Xmas, ignoring the idea of SEASONAL DEPRESSION that many people get during THE WINTER TIME during which Christmas JUST HAPPENS to take place..

A good point MW, somewhat debatable, still your ability to present a counter argument does nothing to allieviate the fact that storm could not. If storm could have presented that point herself, when it was appropriate, we could have had an actual debate on the topic.

Here is HH's first big misunderstand (IMO). Saying that by wishing a non-Christian a "Happy Holiday" aka "Good Day" that they are mindlessly shoving their beliefs onto someone and telling them that they NEED TO CELEBRATE Christmas. (A very paranoid thought)..

This would be a missunderstanding, but I believe it is yours as I don't recall commenting on the 'happy holidy' expresion.

Here is HH's second misunderstanding. By telling people that their religious holiday should be under attack and that they SHOULDN'T say things like "Happy Holidays".

See above. Also, this statment had nothing to do with the quote you put above it, which was in fact from Storm, not myself.

Well, HH's beliefs here would be that Xmas should be under attack..

You could perhaps argue this (dropping the plural usuage mind you) but again, storm was not able to. Your making a cotent argument, again, does not change the fact that storm failed to do so, and given this post seems to be about justifying storm's ability to debate your main point is obviously flawed.

Here it's basically becoming a full-out cat-fight..

This is true, the thread degraded quite rapidly.

Well, by reading it proves that you do have beliefs, that you're trying to push them on others (or so it comes across), and that by not taking in all sides of the equation they probably ARE ignorant..

Possibly, if your assumption had been correct.

Which I think I have just proven..

Hardly, but excellent try.

Or, more accurately, why we should all be emarrassed for HH.

No, again I'll reffer you to the point that your making an actual argument does nothing to change the fact that storm could not or would not do so. This is how a debate is supposed to go, you put out claims and arguments, I addressed them, and so on and so forth. Storm outright refused to do this.

 

[Morse]

Well, if I had to pick one, I'd have to say the point of Christmas is to grow my *** even bigger yet again so that I have to buy yet another set of pants that fit me.

Hey.....maybe Levis/Dockers is behind all of this!

You could just buy spandex like ATS does.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

You could just buy spandex like ATS does.

Pfft - shows what you know. I get all my spandex gifted.

 

[Morse]

Since the point didn't entirely sink the first time, I'm going to take the nail MW shoved into HH and hit it a few times.

Upon Storm saying that the War on Christmas is ludicrous.

How do you mean? How is it ludicrous and how are athiests fueling this?

As well as saying,

Good point, but at least in america, the christmas season has the highest rate of completed and attempted suicide. Is there any reason christmas shouldn't be banned altogether? If so, I don't see it.

And Storm, in reply to another post said...

Christmas isn't under any serious attack, but the RRS and their fellow bigots give the hysterical Christians something to point to and say "SEE?"

Storm's response to HH's assertions.

Because it's fun and harmless.

What justification is there for banning it in the first place? That you, personally, don't like it for whatever reason?

HH's reply to Storm's reply

I agree that it's not under attack (although I see no reason for it not to be) but lets face it, you don't need the RRS (I'm not sure you're use of bogots there is appropriate either but I don't know a lot about them) to have hysterical christians point and say 'see'. Even something as simple as keeping christian religious celebrations out of goverment run instituations make them do that. Anything they don't like makes them do that.

HH's reply to Storm's "its harmless" assertion.

Harmless, did you miss the whole marked increase in suicide at this time of year?
Or does that somehow not count?



I prefer to live in a world without christian's pushing their ignorant beliefs on me thank you.

Storm's reply to HH's assertions

Not until you prove that Christmas is the cause.

But it's ok to push your ignorant beliefs on them? ISn't there a word for that? Oh yeah, "hypocrisy."

HH's reply to Storm's assertions

Alright, if we're going to degrade to such a pathetic level as your first sentance implies, I can simply respond to your 2nd sentance with "Prove I have 'beliefs' and that they are ignorant."

What's wrong, can't take your own medicine?

I just threw your own words back in your face to make a point. Didn't care for it, did you?

There really wasn't a debate in the first place. HH gave an assertion (that Christmas should be attacked because of the marked increase in suicides), and Storm said prove it. HH never proved it. Until you have given us DATA from a third, non affiliated party, there is nothing to debate. All you have are unbacked assertions!

I don't see how you can attack Storm for not making an argument when you made such a poor one that it doesn't warrant answering. Not sure if you are familiar with the law of debate that says "Its not the job of the opposing part to prove the asserting party incorrect, its the job of the asserting part to prove itself correct." Upon which the opposing party will present its counter argument.

And furthermore, you were the first to be offensive, and therefore provoked the cat fight.

 

[Amill]

My opinion is that you shouldn't really care if you're not Christian and someone tells you Merry Christmas, and you shouldn't care if your Christian and someone tells you happy holidays. Who gives a crap, those people aren't trying to insult whatever belief you may have, they're trying to be nice, so taking as an insult is retarded. There are even Christians who are upset that they call it "winter break" in public schools now instead of Christmas break. The same goes to non believers who are so set against the word god being in our pledge and on our money. People really need to just start thinking and worrying about more important things.

I do dislike the fact that Fox news loves to hate on atheists this time of year especially though. It gets a little old, and those guys are the biggest douches around. Even some of the women on their disgust me.

 

[sojourner]

Tell that to the American Indian [rimshot] WHOA! I'll be here all week. Try the veal!

I never said I agreed with US policy regarding the Indian nations. So, what you're really saying is, it's OK to do it because everybody else is doing it? I suppose if everyone was jumping into shark tanks, you'd want to do that too? If that's your stance, why don't you just lean on the American taxpayer and extort money illegally from them, just like the IRS?

 

[nonbeliever_92]

Down with x-mas! Up with Christmakwanzakah!

 

[sojourner]

There are even Christians who are upset that they call it "winter break" in public schools now instead of Christmas break.

That peeves me, not as a Christian, but as a concerned citizen. Schools, above all govt. institutions ought to be honest and intentional. If they were really honest with themselves (and us) the reason they're taking a break is not due to winter, it's due to Christmas. Why not be honest and call it "Christmas break?" Because of some "politically-correct," non-believing schmucks who don't think that religion has any place in government want to make sure our precious children aren't being forced by the system into observing a religious holiday. So they have to lie to everyone and call it "Winter Break." Please! Look them in the eye and say, "It's Christmas break. Tough!"

 

[Beaudreaux]

I never said I agreed with US policy regarding the Indian nations. So, what you're really saying is, it's OK to do it because everybody else is doing it?

Noooo, you said userpation is not an American value and I pointed out (with rapacious wit and a charming personality, btw) that our country was FOUNDED on userpation. We took the ground we friggin' stand on from someone else! Not to mention how usurpation is hardly absent from the foundations of our economy. I didn't say it was "right". I pointed out that it's "American."

I suppose if everyone was jumping into shark tanks, you'd want to do that too?

Nah. I'm more of a comfort-the-hot-wives-whose-husbands-jumped kind of guy.

If that's your stance, why don't you just lean on the American taxpayer and extort money illegally from them, just like the IRS?

Are you saying that the IRS, an American institution, is all about userpation?

 

[sojourner]

Noooo, you said userpation is not an American value and I pointed out (with rapacious wit and a charming personality, btw) that our country was FOUNDED on userpation. We took the ground we friggin' stand on from someone else! Not to mention how usurpation is hardly absent from the foundations of our economy. I didn't say it was "right". I pointed out that it's "American."

Nah. I'm more of a comfort-the-hot-wives-whose-husbands-jumped kind of guy.

Are you saying that the IRS, an American institution, is all about userpation?

The government does it, yes. But the government frowns upon our doing it. And we, ourselves, frown upon it. Usurpation is not an American value.

 

[blackout]

That peeves me, not as a Christian, but as a concerned citizen. Schools, above all govt. institutions ought to be honest and intentional. If they were really honest with themselves (and us) the reason they're taking a break is not due to winter, it's due to Christmas. Why not be honest and call it "Christmas break?" Because of some "politically-correct," non-believing schmucks who don't think that religion has any place in government want to make sure our precious children aren't being forced by the system into observing a religious holiday. So they have to lie to everyone and call it "Winter Break." Please! Look them in the eye and say, "It's Christmas break. Tough!"

Is it wintertime? Is it a break?

it's a winter break.

In the spring there's a break too.

they call it.... Spring break.

The winter break also falls right in the middle of the school year semesters,
which is a perfect place for a school year break.

(pst... just because it's christmas break for you,
doesn't mean it is for me.
HOWEVER it IS clearly a winter break
for everyone.)

not that any of it matters

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That peeves me, not as a Christian, but as a concerned citizen. Schools, above all govt. institutions ought to be honest and intentional. If they were really honest with themselves (and us) the reason they're taking a break is not due to winter, it's due to Christmas. Why not be honest and call it "Christmas break?" Because of some "politically-correct," non-believing schmucks who don't think that religion has any place in government want to make sure our precious children aren't being forced by the system into observing a religious holiday. So they have to lie to everyone and call it "Winter Break." Please! Look them in the eye and say, "It's Christmas break. Tough!"

Well, there is also the fact that one semester ends, and the next one begins. There is also New Years eve/day. And since it is during the winter, I think "Winter break" or holiday is more fitting than just Christmas. Or we could just call it "Semester break." But since we have Spring Break, and a Fall Break, I think Winter Break is a good option.

 

[Arlanbb]

That peeves me, not as a Christian, but as a concerned citizen. Schools, above all govt. institutions ought to be honest and intentional. If they were really honest with themselves (and us) the reason they're taking a break is not due to winter, it's due to Christmas. Why not be honest and call it "Christmas break?" Because of some "politically-correct," non-believing schmucks who don't think that religion has any place in government want to make sure our precious children aren't being forced by the system into observing a religious holiday. So they have to lie to everyone and call it "Winter Break." Please! Look them in the eye and say, "It's Christmas break. Tough!"

Sojourner ~ The people who run the schools are doing this because the local and state laws indicate they have to keep a nutral stand and i'm sure they would like to say something different but might get fired. If you have a good paying job now days you toe the line.:cold:

 

[Metalic Wings]

Alright, here's another long one.

I do dislike the fact that Fox news loves to hate on atheists this time of year especially though. It gets a little old, and those guys are the biggest douches around. Even some of the women on their disgust me.

Yeah. Hating of any kind is just obnoxious.

Down with x-mas! Up with Christmakwanzakah!

Usurpation is not an American value.

It may not be an American value, but it is part of our past and present and I foresee it in our future as well.

The winter break also falls right in the middle of the school year semesters,
which is a perfect place for a school year break.

An excellent point =D

There is also New Years eve/day.

My dad pointed this out to me. I completely agree.

So here's the general idea: If someone tells you "Happy Holidays," just assume they're talking about New Year's and everyone can be happy!

 

[andys]

I see I need to re-post...

Aren't you aware that Christmas has NOTHING to do with a Christ? It was a huge pagan holiday that was celebrated all over the world, many centuries before the mythical Jesus was invented—back to Neolithic times! There was a very important reason why the world was united in this celebration; it was the Winter Solstice, Dec 21, which marked the end of winter and the first day that the Sun would rise higher each day in the sky. This day heralded the planting of crops so food would be again plentiful.

It was a time of incredible merriment, involving gift giving, singing carols, and decorating with candles and shiny ornaments. In Rome, for example, slaves got to switch places with their masters.

After many centuries, the party-pooping Christians gained power, and they wanted to get rid of this pagan celebration. Even Christ disapproved of this heathen holiday, as the Bible clearly attests, when Jesus scolds anyone who puts up a "Christmas" tree:

"Thus saith the Lord, learn not the way of the heathen...For the customs of these people are vain; for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." (Jeremiah 10:2-6)

This Sun day celebration was far too big an event to sweep away, so the sneaky Christians took it over and made it a celebration of the Son (of God), instead of the Sun.

Fortunately, to this day, most of the traditions and symolism from this glorious old celebration are still all around us. The evergreen tree, the wreath (symbolizing the round sun), the candles and lights on trees and houses (symbolizing the warmth of the sun), caroling, gift giving, and many more.

So enjoy your Solstice celebration this year and be sure to remind your Christian friends to remove their pagan tree from their homes!

 

[Metalic Wings]

Aren't you aware that Christmas has NOTHING to do with a Christ?

I see that I need to repost.

If you take the time to look back, I actually touched on this for half of a nanosecond.

And that's all the time it really should require, because it isn't really the topic of this thread. I understand that cat-fights weren't exactly intended when this thread started up either, but the point is that we're talking about the "Advent Conspiracy" and all that other crud.

If you really want to rant about pagan holidays and how Christianity stole them, fine.

Just go make your own thread. I'd be more than happy to discuss it there. ;P

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Why does anyone pay attention to O'Reilly? First of all, I don't think he's very religious. Secondly, how can anyone take seriously the author of this book:

My gosh, he's right! Kids ARE Americans, just like everyone else. Finally, someone broke away from the liberal elite and had the guts to say it. Now that's the kind of hard-hitting journalism I like: not the kind of writing elitists produce when they want to impress you with their intellect and knowledge; but the kind of writing elitists produce when they want to patronize you with appeals to folksy emotions and small, digestable sentences.

 

[Metalic Wings]

Why does anyone pay attention to O'Reilly? First of all, I don't think he's very religious. Secondly, how can anyone take seriously the author of this book:

I think I'm literally going to be sick.

Do I dare even ask what this book is about?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Because it's fun and harmless.

What justification is there for banning it in the first place? That you, personally, don't like it for whatever reason?

A lot of things are fun and can appear harmless.

The bottom line is Not whether Christmas is fun or not, but is it religious truth?

If something is based on a lie or a man-made religious custom or tradition outside of Scripture, adding on to Scripture, then that ones form of worship is in vain or worthless according to Jesus.
Mark 7:7; Matthew 15:9.

How did Jesus apostles celebrate Jesus birthday?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

A lot of things are fun and can appear harmless.

The bottom line is Not whether Christmas is fun or not, but is it religious truth?

If something is based on a lie or a man-made religious custom or tradition outside of Scripture, adding on to Scripture, then that ones form of worship is in vain or worthless according to Jesus.
Mark 7:7; Matthew 15:9.

How did Jesus apostles celebrate Jesus birthday?

The RIGHT way. With a pinata.