Quran is free of errors

[Gharib]

You're answer was expected, insufficient, and transparent.

of course it was expected, you asked for it.

You wish to draw a line between your insistence of having the one true faith, and that of another mortal making the same claim, by citing a failure in their sacred text, while refusing to admit to the errors in yours.

well i haven't seen any errors in the quran, if you have and are truthful in what you are saying, please show them to me so i can judge for my self.

I asked the question in an attempt to get you to see that you aren't the only people to claim to know God's mind, through a sacred, inerrant text. Naturally, you completely missed the hypocrisy of your position. You claim that your text is the inerrant word of God, just as a fundamentalist Christian does. There is no difference. You both think the other is a misguided infidel. Again - there is no difference.

so even though the bible is man edited and even though you know that, just because they are still claiming that their religion is "the true one" you are saying that the quran is also false although there are no errors, but because the bible has errors, it automatically makes the quran false too.

wow, talk about smart and understanding.

 

[Gharib]

How many times do people have to tell you that the vast majority of Christians do not believe that the Bible is the literal word of God?

do you have any supporting statements that go with this?
any statistics?
or did you just make it up?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

so even though the bible is man edited and even though you know that,

In the other thread, you just told me that the Koran is written from the memories of the Hadifhs, and at the direction of your leader. That is "man edited" - and you know that.

just because they are still claiming that their religion is "the true one" you are saying that the quran is also false although there are no errors, but because the bible has errors, it automatically makes the quran false too.

I don't think you can read very well. At no point in this thread (or the other thread) have I said that, because the Bible has errors, the Koran must also. I realize that you have nothing else to hang your hat on, but try not to put words in my mouth.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

do you have any supporting statements that go with this?
any statistics?
or did you just make it up?

It is pretty common knowledge.

Apparently, fundamentalist ignorance is much stronger in the Middle East than it is in the West.

 

[Gharib]

In the other thread, you just told me that the Koran is written from the memories of the Hadifhs, and at the direction of your leader. That is "man edited" - and you know that.

but how was it edited, when what was in the brain got transfered onto paper? yes the place where it was ussualy got edited (from brain to paper) but not the words, none of the words were changed.

I don't think you can read very well. At no point in this thread (or the other thread) have I said that, because the Bible has errors, the Koran must also. I realize that you have nothing else to hang your hat on, but try not to put words in my mouth.

ok sorry for that.

so what exactly are you saying, lets hear your side of the story.

 

[Gharib]

It is pretty common knowledge.

Apparently, fundamentalist ignorance is much stronger in the Middle East than it is in the West.

common knowledge by non christians yes, but not by christians themself. i too have been saying that the bible is not the word of god, but it doesn't make it true because i say so, or because i think so.

so you think that christians beleive the bible is not from god, and yet they are christian, so how will you support this claim?

because you say so?

 

[kai]

esalam

You are aware that there were several different versions of the Qu'ran during the third capiphate that were ordered burned by Uthman? and that the Quran you read today is directly due to Uthman making it the "standard version"

Uthman Ibn Affan (part 2 of 2): The Possessor of Two Lights - The Religion of Islam


so really there is no original copy of the quran to study only Uthmans, do you think this counts as "editing"

 

[Gharib]

I am not saying that the Bible is like the Koran. I am saying that your blind devotion, and claims of God inspired inerrancy are exactly the same as those made by a fundamentalist Christian.

... and you are BOTH wrong.

but you are an atheist (i thin, please correct me) so just because you believe in nothing that doesn't make all beliefs wrong. so you too are wrong, we have all the faiths saying that god exists, and you think he doesn't.

Question - does the Koran call for the stoning of people, under certain circumstances, or do the people in the Middle East take it upon themselves?

no the stoning punishment isn't mentioned in the quran, the 100 lashes are.

if 2 married people commit adultery then their punishment is stoning.

if 2 unmarried people commit adultery their punishment is 100 lashes each.

if 2 people, one a married woman or man and the other an unmarried woman or man, commit adultery then the punishment is like above, death to the one who is married but 100 lashes to whom ever is not married.

but since we muslims do not have a leader at present these punishments should not be taking place in any country.

 

[Gharib]

esalam

You are aware that there were several different versions of the Qu'ran during the third capiphate that were ordered burned by Uthman? and that the Quran you read today is directly due to Uthman making it the "standard version"

Uthman Ibn Affan (part 2 of 2): The Possessor of Two Lights - The Religion of Islam

i've been expecting someone to bring this up.

there is and has lways been one version of the quran.

but this arguments is nothing to be honest with you.

the first quran was written under the leadership of Abu Bakr (ra). but there was one problem. if i, a non arabic speaker wanted to read the quran , i had to devote my self to the arabic language. it was very complicated, one word could be read in many different ways or could have many diferent pronounciations and only one of them was the actual word.

so when Uthman (ra) came along, he edited the arabic language, thus he made it easier for people like me. i can read arabic, but i am not required to learn the whole language to be able to read.
so once the arabic alphabet was editted (they put vowels to represent different pronounciations of a particular letter) they also wrotte the quran in the same way, so now i can read it without having to learn the language.

 

[kai]

i've been expecting someone to bring this up.

there is and has lways been one version of the quran.

but this arguments is nothing to be honest with you.

the first quran was written under the leadership of Abu Bakr (ra). but there was one problem. if i, a non arabic speaker wanted to read the quran , i had to devote my self to the arabic language. it was very complicated, one word could be read in many different ways or could have many diferent pronounciations and only one of them was the actual word.

so when Uthman (ra) came along, he edited the arabic language, thus he made it easier for people like me. i can read arabic, but i am not required to learn the whole language to be able to read.
so once the arabic alphabet was editted (they put vowels to represent different pronounciations of a particular letter) they also wrotte the quran in the same way, so now i can read it without having to learn the language.

so he edited the Quran so it was eaier to read , otherwise the quran would be the same and Arabic would be different.

my point is Uthmans is the oldest Quran at present there is no older one to refer to.

 

[Gharib]

so he edited the Quran so it was eaier to read , otherwise the quran would be the same and Arabic would be different.

my point is Uthmans is the oldest Quran at present there is no older one to refer to.

yes that right.

well if you want the quran with the other writting, then just ignore those little lines on the arabic writting that are above the letters. thats the only thing that was added to the arabic alphabet.

 

[sojourner]

read my post just above this one, see how the bible is man made? it shows the errors.

The only thing it shows is that you don't know how to read the Bible in order to discover what it says.

 

[sojourner]

And don't ignore the difference between,Bible and Quran,we showed you them
so instead of repeating your line,try to prove that bible is like Quran,you can't.

The difference is that Christians don't have a problem with Biblical errors. We take them for what they are: human error in transmitting inspiration -- and then we move on to more important matters, like loving people, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the lonely...
It seems like only Muslims have a problem with Biblical error. Why is that? Why should you care? It's creepy. And obsessive.

 

[sojourner]

common knowledge by non christians yes, but not by christians themself. i too have been saying that the bible is not the word of god, but it doesn't make it true because i say so, or because i think so.

so you think that christians beleive the bible is not from god, and yet they are christian, so how will you support this claim?

because you say so?

Try asking a Christian. I am a Christian. The Bible is not "from God." It was inspired by God, but written by men. Claim supported. Thank you.

 

[McBell]

common knowledge by non christians yes, but not by christians themself. i too have been saying that the bible is not the word of god, but it doesn't make it true because i say so, or because i think so.

so you think that christians beleive the bible is not from god, and yet they are christian, so how will you support this claim?

because you say so?

Yet you fail to see how this same applies to your koran....

 

[The Voice of Reason]

common knowledge by non christians yes, but not by christians themself. i too have been saying that the bible is not the word of god, but it doesn't make it true because i say so, or because i think so.

I don't think you can possibly be more wrong. Even among Christians, it is well known that the Bible is not inerrant. Only the fundamentalist Christians buy into that rubbish - much like yourself defending the Koran.

so you think that christians beleive the bible is not from god, and yet they are christian, so how will you support this claim?

You may be the most thick headed person I've ever met. No one said that Christians believe that the Bible is not from God. You really need to learn how to read. The vast majority of Christians believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. That does not mean that they see it as inerrant, nor does it mean that they believe it is not from God.

because you say so?

You are projecting. You believe that if you say that the Koran is inerrant, then it is so. That is your disease - not mine.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

but you are an atheist (i thin, please correct me) so just because you believe in nothing that doesn't make all beliefs wrong. so you too are wrong, we have all the faiths saying that god exists, and you think he doesn't.

Once again, your inability to read and digest the words of other people betrays you.
I am an agnostic - not an atheist. Take the time to read. It will save us all a lot of wasted effort in the future.

no the stoning punishment isn't mentioned in the quran, the 100 lashes are.
if 2 married people commit adultery then their punishment is stoning.
if 2 unmarried people commit adultery their punishment is 100 lashes each.
if 2 people, one a married woman or man and the other an unmarried woman or man, commit adultery then the punishment is like above, death to the one who is married but 100 lashes to whom ever is not married.
but since we muslims do not have a leader at present these punishments should not be taking place in any country.

Where then, is your outrage about the killings of homosexuals and adulterers that is occuring in Iraq? You waste the time, effort, and bandwidth to spread this garbage about the "Glorious Koran", while not protesting the actions of other Muslims in the Middle East?

Not only are their actions wrong (morally speaking) - they are also in conflict with your sacred text.

 

[Fatihah]

The difference is that Christians don't have a problem with Biblical errors. We take them for what they are: human error in transmitting inspiration -- and then we move on to more important matters, like loving people, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the lonely...
It seems like only Muslims have a problem with Biblical error. Why is that? Why should you care? It's creepy. And obsessive.

Response: This is not true; for there are many christians who believe that thr bible is free from error and have a problem when the bible is accused of having errors.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Response: This is not true; for there are many christians who believe that thr bible is free from error and have a problem when the bible is accused of having errors.

You miss his point, Fati.

He is saying that the VAST MAJORITY of Christians do not suffer from such afflictions.

In much the same way, I hope that Islam has far more followers that see it as a sound religion that, while leading them to whatever God they find, at least recognize that it has flaws.

If the majority of the followers of Islam are like eselam and Zhakir, then that is a reflection of the whole religion, and how it is taught.

 

[YmirGF]

You miss his point, Fati.

He is saying that the VAST MAJORITY of Christians do not suffer from such afflictions.

In much the same way, I hope that Islam has far more followers that see it as a sound religion that, while leading them to whatever God they find, at least recognize that it has flaws.

If the majority of the followers of Islam are like eselam and Zhakir, then that is a reflection of the whole religion, and how it is taught.

I see words, infidel. Where are your proofs's.

(I thought I'd save Fatihah the bother of pressing CTRL-V. He must be cramping up by now.)