Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It hasn't happened yet. Besides people said essentially the same things all the way back through the 90s. Further back, it was being the antichrist.
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President Trump won't commit to peaceful transfer of power if he loses the election
- Thread starter Quetzal
- Start date
Putin and Trump don't seem to agree.
Tom
I can give you examples of Republicans doing those things that you can Google for yourself.
Can you give me an example of democrats doing it?
Not just a vague claim that the Dems probably did it. I mean something like the 2000 election where Bush, the governor of Florida, helped his brother Bush the presidential candidate, win by accepting votes for 10 days after the election(without a time stamp) when the votes came from reliable GOP voters(the military).
Tom
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I didn't say it has or that it would, only that it could.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I think the last third term president was Roosevelt before the 22nd ammendment which was ratified in the 50s.
Yup. I think I've mentioned it before. I was a psych major. It gave me great insight into how people...particularly psych students...can happily drink their own bath water and convince themselves they understand things they really don't.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
The prompt: a peaceful transition of power?
Answers:
"The winner of the November 3rd election will be inaugurated on January 20th. There will be an orderly transition just as there has been every four years since 1792”
“If Republicans lose we will accept the result. If the Supreme Court rules in favor of Joe Biden, I will accept that result.”
“As we have done for over two centuries we will have a legitimate & fair election. It may take longer than usual to know the outcome, but it will be a valid one. And at noon on Jan 20, 2021 we will peacefully swear in the President.”
“The peaceful transfer of power is enshrined in our Constitution and fundamental to the survival of our Republic. America’s leaders swear an oath to the Constitution. We will uphold that oath.”
“Fundamental to democracy is the peaceful transition of power; without that, there is Belarus. Any suggestion that a president might not respect this Constitutional guarantee is both unthinkable and unacceptable.”
“People wonder about the peaceful transfer of power. I can assure you it will be peaceful. Now we may have litigation about who won the election, but the court will decide, and if Republicans lose, we'll accept that result. But we need a full court."
“Well, we're going to have to see what happens. You know that I've been complaining very strongly about the ballots, and the ballots are a disaster. We'll want to have — get rid of the ballots and you'll have a very — we'll have a very peaceful — there won't be a transfer, frankly. There'll be a continuation."
One of these answers came from “President” Trump. The others are from prominent Republican Senators and Congress people (McConnel, Graham, Cheney, Rubio, Romney).
Guess which quote was Trump’s?
... See the difference?
Some of these are from responsible adults who want to keep America great and put America first.
But one is from a fascist orange baby with narcissistic personality disorder.
Can you tell which one it is?
Sources:
Trump on peaceful transition if he loses: 'Get rid of the ballots' and 'there won't be a transfer'
GOP lawmakers distance themselves from Trump comments on transfer of power
Answers:
"The winner of the November 3rd election will be inaugurated on January 20th. There will be an orderly transition just as there has been every four years since 1792”
“If Republicans lose we will accept the result. If the Supreme Court rules in favor of Joe Biden, I will accept that result.”
“As we have done for over two centuries we will have a legitimate & fair election. It may take longer than usual to know the outcome, but it will be a valid one. And at noon on Jan 20, 2021 we will peacefully swear in the President.”
“The peaceful transfer of power is enshrined in our Constitution and fundamental to the survival of our Republic. America’s leaders swear an oath to the Constitution. We will uphold that oath.”
“Fundamental to democracy is the peaceful transition of power; without that, there is Belarus. Any suggestion that a president might not respect this Constitutional guarantee is both unthinkable and unacceptable.”
“People wonder about the peaceful transfer of power. I can assure you it will be peaceful. Now we may have litigation about who won the election, but the court will decide, and if Republicans lose, we'll accept that result. But we need a full court."
“Well, we're going to have to see what happens. You know that I've been complaining very strongly about the ballots, and the ballots are a disaster. We'll want to have — get rid of the ballots and you'll have a very — we'll have a very peaceful — there won't be a transfer, frankly. There'll be a continuation."
One of these answers came from “President” Trump. The others are from prominent Republican Senators and Congress people (McConnel, Graham, Cheney, Rubio, Romney).
Guess which quote was Trump’s?
... See the difference?
Some of these are from responsible adults who want to keep America great and put America first.
But one is from a fascist orange baby with narcissistic personality disorder.
Can you tell which one it is?
Sources:
Trump on peaceful transition if he loses: 'Get rid of the ballots' and 'there won't be a transfer'
GOP lawmakers distance themselves from Trump comments on transfer of power
Scott C.
Just one guy
I don't particularly like Trump. He is an a*s. I despise the left media even more. Watching the left media completely freak out over every nonsense statement Trump makes is sort of entertaining and also tiring and frustrating. Haven't they learned Trump speak yet after four years? Correct, he did not answer the reporters question, because he hates the media and loves to irritate them. I don't know why he can't just say something like: "If I lose and there's credible evidence of voter fraud, I will fight it in court. In the end, if I lose that battle, of course I will vacate the White House peacefully. I will bitc*h and moan, but it will be peaceful." Trump doesn't talk that way. I watched the video carefully. He said absolutely nothing that leads me to believe he will incite violence if he loses or that the Feds will have to physically evict him from the White House. That's not going to happen. Is it possible that some right fringe wackos will do something violent? Yes that is possible. I will compare that with left wing wackos who went nuts and destroyed billions of dollars of property in recent months. I so badly wish some sane and calm voices of reason would come out in both parties and make it clear that violence is not an acceptable solution to grievances, even if those grievances are great.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Ah, one of those. Like the man who would curse God, if the devil bid him pray. Please go on.
Hmm well that doesn’t really explain his response, does it? For example, he could have said:
“This will be the biggest, most beautiful election ever, okay? We’re going to count all the votes - excuse me - we’re going to count them all, it will be perfect. And when they’re all counted I’m going to win. And it will be totally peaceful. Probably the most peaceful ever. Not like when Obama was elected, which was a total disaster by the way.”
That response would have been flippant and annoy the media, too.
But that would be the response of an orange Trump-baby from a different universe, where his instincts are to want the election to work well and to be peaceful - presumably to take credit for it. That’s the kind of triumphant chord he strikes when promoting his stupid wall, or absurd treatments for COVID ... things he wants to see happen.
In this universe, we ended up with the Trump-baby version that wants there to be doubt and confusion about the election and doesn’t give a ***t if it’s peaceful. Our Trump-baby still enjoys annoying the media .... but is defeatist when talking about voting dysfunction. He is almost willing it to happen, more like an enemy of the United States hoping to see us fail than a President eager to Make America Great Again.
See the difference?
Now you know. See above.
It’s called a dog whistle. His violent supporters are listening just as his racist supporters are.
Again compare what Trump said to what other Republicans said. It’s not that he promised violence it’s the glaring omission of mentioning peace, when that was the thrust of the question. And this isn’t an isolated instance - it is part of a pattern with him.
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osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
If America is caught sleeping at the wheel of leadership again then Trump will be re elected.
Taking nothing for granted, he will leave peacefully.
The guy is hard to stomach. But I think Americans are going to be more vigilant this time around.
He is definitely a lesson to be learned. Both for those who voted for him, and others.
But if people lose their zeal for change, then that would spell trouble.
From my impressions I think there is a lot of passion for change here.
A Trump reelection would really be awful. But we can never quit!
Social media is a disease in our country!
I think that's why we suffer this guy. The dumbing down of America has to end.
We are starved for real news, and trustworthy journalism.
PBS is like the only news I can watch. What do republicans have? Junk Fox news.
Whatever happened to unbiased reporting of straight facts. The more opinionated news gets the worse our democracy gets. We have to separate opinion from news.
Taking nothing for granted, he will leave peacefully.
The guy is hard to stomach. But I think Americans are going to be more vigilant this time around.
He is definitely a lesson to be learned. Both for those who voted for him, and others.
But if people lose their zeal for change, then that would spell trouble.
From my impressions I think there is a lot of passion for change here.
A Trump reelection would really be awful. But we can never quit!
Social media is a disease in our country!
I think that's why we suffer this guy. The dumbing down of America has to end.
We are starved for real news, and trustworthy journalism.
PBS is like the only news I can watch. What do republicans have? Junk Fox news.
Whatever happened to unbiased reporting of straight facts. The more opinionated news gets the worse our democracy gets. We have to separate opinion from news.
I happened (despite precautions taken) to hear a clip
on NPR of what Trump said. It could be that he was
avoiding any public statement that would hint that
he'd lose....ie, don't discuss the possibility of loss.
on NPR of what Trump said. It could be that he was
avoiding any public statement that would hint that
he'd lose....ie, don't discuss the possibility of loss.
Why's that, exactly?
Why would you despise "the left media" more than Trump, considering what Trump has done?
That's the issue: they have.
Trump's typical approach to policy issues:
- say whatever harebrained idea pops into his head, regardless of whether it's legal or reasonable.
- if it plays well with his "base" at rallies, he starts repeating it.
- if he doesn't get much pushback from administration, it gets implemented.
- if implementing it looks like it would be personally costly for him, or if it's so illegal that his administration refuses to do it to save their own skins, then the idea becomes "obviously a joke" retroactively.
... so the last 4 years has shown that any ridiculous thing that Trump might say might end up as the basis of policy. Of course they treat all of it seriously.
Scott C.
Just one guy
Trump did not say he will have to be removed from office by force or that he will start violence if he loses the election and loses a court battle. I come to that conclusion based on what he said, what he didn't say, what he has done for four years, what he has not done for four years, and my impressions of Trump, good and bad. It's not going to happen. This is still the USA. Aren't you more concerned about the violence that will erupt if Trump wins?
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Mr Spinkles
Mr
Yes, but a few problems with this:
1. Yes he wants to win and doesn't want to talk as if he will lose. That is normal. That is acceptable. But he doesn't balance that desire with any other consideration. Like peaceful transition. Like putting America first. Keeping America great. You know, stuff like that. If he doesn't want to insinuate he will lose there are a million ways to convey that while also reassuring America that it will be peaceful. He didn't do that because he doesn't care about that.
2. Why are we speculating about what he meant? He's an adult - in theory I mean. If his words didn't capture what he meant he can clarify. Do you think he will clarify that what he meant to say was, of course it will be peaceful but I intend to win? I doubt it. I hope I'm wrong. We do this too often with Trump - he babbles something barely coherent but kind of vaguely malevolent, and then we all whisper among each other trying to figure out how to re-interpret what he said in some reasonable way. Why do we do that? At some point we are just fooling ourselves because we can't accept he really means what he says.
3. The question was prefaced with "win, lose or draw, can you commit to a peaceful transition". This is a softball question. The answer should be easy. Yet the first part of Trump's response was: "Well, we're going to have to see what happens. You know that I've been complaining very strongly about the ballots, and the ballots are a disaster." This is not the response of a man who doesn't want to discuss the possibility of a loss. This is the response of a man who is absolutely considering the possibility of a loss and wants to cast doubt on the result.
4. What does he mean when he says "we're going to have to see what happens"? If he's not referring to the possibility of losing ... what other alternative remains, aside from things not being "peaceful"? This is a completely wrong and unacceptable answer to what should be an incredibly easy question. We should assume he meant what he said, not what we think he meant. And if he didn't mean what he said - he should take it upon himself to clarify. He's an adult. Even toddlers know how to use their words.
5. I invite you to read post #67 and contrast Trump's wannabe fascist response, to the Republican Senators and Congresswomen who are responsible adults and actually put America First rather than Trump First.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
If I may jump in - yes I am concerned about the violence if Trump wins. I wasn't concerned about violence if GW Bush won. Or John McCain. Or Mitt Romney. Or Trump in 2016. But I am concerned about it today.
Why? What changed?
What changed is Donald Trump. He was not satisfied with Russia undermining our elections. He decided he needs to undermine the legitimacy of our own elections, like a hostile foreign power, for his personal benefit. He wants his supporters to cry fraud if he loses. Unfortunately, that cuts both ways. It may also result in his opponents crying fraud if he wins. When people believe they lost fair and square, they are more likely to be peaceful. When there is confusion and doubt about that, violence is more likely. Trump is a charlatan and uses doubt to his advantage, the way a cuttlefish uses ink.
This all hurts America. But for Trump, America is collateral damage. His philosophy is Trump First. I've been saying for years if his personal interests diverge from the country, he will sell us out. We have been seeing exactly that happen before our eyes, most dramatically with COVID and undermining our elections.
General Mattis has warned us. John Bolton has warned us. When will we listen? Trump is bad for our country, not just the Democratic or Republican party. He exacerbates all violence and conflict and dysfunction, not just on one side.
That Is a whole lotta words in
response to a simple speculation.
Scott C.
Just one guy
Trump's opponents cried foul when he won the first time. They acted like his winning the Electoral College, but not the popular vote was somehow cheating. They relentlessly accused him of engaging the Russians to influence social media in his behalf, and launched a major investigation that lasted for years. When I consider those events, and consider it was the Democrats who disputed the Gore-Bush election results, and then accused the Supreme Court of throwing the election in behalf of Bush (there are still many today who say Bush stole the election), I conclude that the Democrats have a history of not accepting election results and crying election fraud. Now the left is all up in arms that Trump's raising doubt on the election results before the election happens. Wasn't it the Democrats who were recently sowing doubt on the upcoming election by accusing the head of the Post Office of intentionally limiting their ability to process the mail? This indeed is not good for America. I blame the left for the rise of Trump. When a Republican Presidential candidate runs, who is a good person, who has class, integrity, intelligence, and the heart of a President, the left media does all it can to chew him/her up and spit them out. Some argue if you can't survive that, you don't have what it takes to be President. Well, guess what happened, we got someone who can tell the media where to stuff it and get away with it, someone who seems to enjoy the controversy. Nice guys finish last. Sad, but true.
That's right. He didn't say it outright; he just tested the waters to see how people respond. The threat was veiled enough that he can roll it back and say he was joking.
How many times in the last four years did Trump give up power peacefully?
What about the last 4 years, with the Muslim ban, concentration camps, secret police, and using every tactic he thinks he can get away with against his opponents, makes you think he'll suddenly start behaving responsibly right at the end?
No, I'm really not. No rioter has the power of the US government. You can get insurance for property damage; there's no insurance you can buy that will stop the erosion of liberty we've seen in Trump's America.
Edit: the US under Trump is becoming a fascist state. If he's defeated - and if your country as a whole puts in a lot of corrective action - you'll be able to steer the country onto a better course. If Trump wins, there may be no going back.
Not cheating, but it does mean that he doesn't have a fully legitimate mandate from the people.
Up here in Canada where minority governments can be a thing, they also say this about Prime Ministers of minority governments.
The bottom line: any President should aspire to be the President of all Americans, not just the ones who belong to the same party as the President. Well, the election showed that "all Americans" are more Democrat than they are Republican. A President who cared about democracy would govern accordingly.
That investigation found that many people in Trump's inner circle did conspire with the Russians, if you recall.
The only thing that save Trump from criminal charges is the (IMO dubious) position of the Justice Department that they won't indict a sitting President.
The election was stolen.
After the election results were finalized, a team from the University of Chicago examined and tabulated every ballot. Their conclusion: Gore got more votes:
Based on the NORC review, the media group concluded that if the disputes over the validity of all the ballots in question had been consistently resolved and any uniform standard applied, the electoral result would have been reversed and Gore would have won by 60 to 171 votes (with, for each punch ballot, at least two of the three ballot reviewers' codes being in agreement).
2000 United States presidential election recount in Florida - Wikipedia
By "accusing," do you mean "pointing out what was actually happening?"
Trump is trying to steal the election. Do you expect the Democrats to just go along with this?