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No other Path to Unity but God.

ppp

ppp

Well-Known Member
TransmutingSoul said:
Nationalism is still a plague.

Regards Tony
Click to expand...
This is one point on which we agree. The difference is that you want to join the whole world together under the velvet gloved fist of Baha'i doctrine, whereas I think that non-localized small groups with a constitution of interaction is the way to go. Centralization of power is always a terrible idea.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
TransmutingSoul said:
Because it is not based on injustice or violence. The details are yet to be known, but we can have some idea, as the League of Nations and then the current United Nations are but stepping stones to what will unfold.

Regards Tony
Click to expand...
I'll treat your advocacy as a work in progress
with the best of intentions. (No, I'm not being
sarcastic.) But dang...it leaves me without any
challenging questions. I'll bore the audience.
 
ppp

ppp

Well-Known Member
TransmutingSoul said:
That has not been offered in this OP, only by those that keep imputing this.

Regards Tony
Click to expand...
You are group of humans with a goal of ruling the world, under the hegemony of your religious beliefs. Why should I believe that your group of humans is any different from any of the kerjillion other groups of humans throughout history with similar goals?
 
TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Policy said:
You are group of humans with a goal of ruling the world, under the hegemony of your religious beliefs. Why should I believe that your group of humans is any different from any of the kerjillion other groups of humans throughout history with similar goals?
Click to expand...

False. That is imputing your ideas.

Regards Tony
 
ppp

ppp

Well-Known Member
TransmutingSoul said:
Not a thing, you are not offering any path to unity, so best to just leave it at that.

Regards Tony
Click to expand...

"But He also made clear that political unity alone would not guarantee peace and prosperity in the long run. A higher level of unity must be achieved—one possible only through adherence to the spiritual verities taught by Baha’u’llah."
From The Lesser Peace and the Most Great Peace

It's not me that the world has to worry about.
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
TransmutingSoul said:
Apparently that is what you want to see, why not look toward the benefits, what will go right!

Regards Tony
Click to expand...
What leadership in what country doesn't have problems or creates its own problems? Then have those leaders elect representatives to run the world? Here it says that the lesser peace alone would not guarantee peace... that a higher level must be achieved.
Abdu’l-Baha later explained that the Lesser Peace would be established over the course of time as the peoples of the world grow gradually more conscious that the world is our common homeland and that a system of international governance is indispensable for world stability. But He also made clear that political unity alone would not guarantee peace and prosperity in the long run. A higher level of unity must be achieved—one possible only through adherence to the spiritual verities taught by Baha’u’llah.
​
Before that, in the same ariticle it quotes Baha'u'llah...
The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody. – Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, pp. 118-119.

Nonetheless, there are innumerable instances in which Baha’u’llah speaks of the inevitable triumph of his Cause. In certain passages he indicates that the present state of affairs is but a prelude to a revolutionary turn of fortune:

The whole earth is now in a state of pregnancy. The day is approaching when it will have yielded its noblest fruits, when from it will have sprung forth the loftiest trees, the most enchanting blossoms, the most heavenly blessings. – Baha’u’llah, quoted by Shoghi Effendi in The World Order of Baha’u’llah, p. 169.

The time is approaching when every created thing will have cast its burden. Glorified be God Who hath vouchsafed this grace that encompasseth all things, whether seen or unseen! – Ibid.

These great oppressions are preparing it for the advent of the Most Great Justice. – Baha’u’llah, quoted by Shoghi Effendi in The Promised Day Is Come, p. 5.​

This sounds like the big day, and the big push, is towards the most great peace with the people of the world living under the "truths" and laws brought from God by Baha'u'llah. Nowhere does it sound like the Baha'i Faith is going to stay small and only "rule" Baha'is. Am I wrong? Or is the Most Great Peace the time when the Baha'i Faith is the government of the world?
​
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Policy said:
You are group of humans with a goal of ruling the world, under the hegemony of your religious beliefs. Why should I believe that your group of humans is any different from any of the kerjillion other groups of humans throughout history with similar goals?
Click to expand...
Here's yet another quote..
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. – Isaiah 9:6

O followers of all religions! We behold you wandering distraught in the wilderness of error. Ye are the fish of this Ocean; wherefore do ye withhold yourselves from that which sustaineth you? Lo, it surgeth before your faces. Hasten unto it from every clime. This is the day whereon the Rock crieth out and shouteth, and celebrateth the praise of its Lord, the All-Possessing, the Most High, saying: “Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled!” This is the Word which was preserved behind the veils of grandeur, and which, when the Promise came to pass, shed its radiance from the horizon of the Divine Will with clear tokens. – Baha’u’llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, pp. 58–59.​
The supposed prophecies "fulfilled" by Baha'u'llah include this one from Isaiah. The government is supposed to be on his shoulders. The big promise of the Messiah sure sounds to me like it is to bring God's rule.

Then it sure sounds like Baha'u'llah is saying he is the guy. He is the promised return. He is the one that is going to establish God's kingdom on Earth. But apparently not. Baha'u'llah has been sent to get a few people into his religion. And to, someday, get them to follow his laws. Tony, if you're listening, you're giving mixed messages here. Has the "promised" day come or not? Has Baha'u'llah brought the truth from God or not? Does he have a plan that will unite the world under one religion, God's religion, and implement God's laws or not?
The Baha'i Faith is a worldwide religion based on the teachings of Baha'u'llah... He stated that the time had come for the people of the world to put aside their differences and to unite on the basis of the teachings that he had brought.

We desire but the good of the world and happiness of the nations.... That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease, and differences of race be annulled... Yet so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the "Most Great Peace" shall come.... These strifes and this bloodshed and discord must cease, and all men be as one kindred and one family.... Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind.... (words spoken by Baha'u'llah to Prof. E.G. Browne of Cambridge University in 1890)​
 
Last edited:
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Policy said:
"But He also made clear that political unity alone would not guarantee peace and prosperity in the long run. A higher level of unity must be achieved—one possible only through adherence to the spiritual verities taught by Baha’u’llah."
From The Lesser Peace and the Most Great Peace

It's not me that the world has to worry about.
Click to expand...
Strange when we have to quote the teachings of the Baha'i Faith to a Baha'i. Or... maybe that's his strategy to get us to look all this stuff up?
 
TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
CG Didymus said:
What leadership in what country doesn't have problems or creates its own problems? Then have those leaders elect representatives to run the world? Here it says that the lesser peace alone would not guarantee peace... that a higher level must be achieved.
Abdu’l-Baha later explained that the Lesser Peace would be established over the course of time as the peoples of the world grow gradually more conscious that the world is our common homeland and that a system of international governance is indispensable for world stability. But He also made clear that political unity alone would not guarantee peace and prosperity in the long run. A higher level of unity must be achieved—one possible only through adherence to the spiritual verities taught by Baha’u’llah.
​
Before that, in the same ariticle it quotes Baha'u'llah...
The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody. – Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, pp. 118-119.

Nonetheless, there are innumerable instances in which Baha’u’llah speaks of the inevitable triumph of his Cause. In certain passages he indicates that the present state of affairs is but a prelude to a revolutionary turn of fortune:

The whole earth is now in a state of pregnancy. The day is approaching when it will have yielded its noblest fruits, when from it will have sprung forth the loftiest trees, the most enchanting blossoms, the most heavenly blessings. – Baha’u’llah, quoted by Shoghi Effendi in The World Order of Baha’u’llah, p. 169.

The time is approaching when every created thing will have cast its burden. Glorified be God Who hath vouchsafed this grace that encompasseth all things, whether seen or unseen! – Ibid.

These great oppressions are preparing it for the advent of the Most Great Justice. – Baha’u’llah, quoted by Shoghi Effendi in The Promised Day Is Come, p. 5.​

This sounds like the big day, and the big push, is towards the most great peace with the people of the world living under the "truths" and laws brought from God by Baha'u'llah. Nowhere does it sound like the Baha'i Faith is going to stay small and only "rule" Baha'is. Am I wrong? Or is the Most Great Peace the time when the Baha'i Faith is the government of the world?
​
Click to expand...

The Lesser Peace is what the world needs to pursue and embrace CG, not dwell on a future event that the world is not ready to embrace.

Regards Tony
 
TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
CG Didymus said:
Strange when we have to quote the teachings of the Baha'i Faith to a Baha'i. Or... maybe that's his strategy to get us to look all this stuff up?
Click to expand...

Shoghi Effendi wrote in great detail
"THE GOAL OF A NEW WORLD ORDER" A LETTER OF SHOGHI EFFENDI

". Let there be no mistake. The principle of the Oneness of Mankind—the pivot round which all the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh revolve—is no mere outburst of ignorant emotionalism or an expression of vague and pious hope. Its appeal is not to be merely identified with a re-awakening of the spirit of brotherhood and good-will among men, nor does it aim solely at the fostering of harmonious cooperation among individual peoples and nations. Its implications are deeper, its claims greater than any which the Prophets of old were allowed to advance. Its message is applicable not only to the individual, but concerns itself primarily with the nature of those essential relationships that must bind all the states and nations as members of one human family. It does not constitute merely the enunciation of an ideal, but stands inseparably associated with an institution adequate to embody its truth, demonstrate its validity, and perpetuate its influence. It implies an organic change in the structure of present-day society, a change such as the world has not yet experienced. It constitutes a challenge, at once bold and universal, to outworn shibboleths of national creeds—creeds that have had their day and which must, in the ordinary course of events as shaped and controlled by Providence, give way to a new gospel, fundamentally different from, and infinitely superior to, what the world has already conceived. It calls for no less than the reconstruction and the demilitarization of the whole civilized world—a world organically unified in all the essential aspects of its life, its political machinery, its spiritual aspiration, its trade and finance, its script and language, and yet infinite in the diversity of the national characteristics of its federated units...."

Bahá’í World/Volume 4/The Goal of a New World Order - Bahaiworks, a library of works about the Bahá’í Faith

Regards Tony
 
ppp

ppp

Well-Known Member
CG Didymus said:
Here's yet another quote..
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. – Isaiah 9:6

O followers of all religions! We behold you wandering distraught in the wilderness of error. Ye are the fish of this Ocean; wherefore do ye withhold yourselves from that which sustaineth you? Lo, it surgeth before your faces. Hasten unto it from every clime. This is the day whereon the Rock crieth out and shouteth, and celebrateth the praise of its Lord, the All-Possessing, the Most High, saying: “Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled!” This is the Word which was preserved behind the veils of grandeur, and which, when the Promise came to pass, shed its radiance from the horizon of the Divine Will with clear tokens. – Baha’u’llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, pp. 58–59.​
The supposed prophecies "fulfilled" by Baha'u'llah include this one from Isaiah. The government is supposed to be on his shoulders. The big promise of the Messiah sure sounds to me like it is to bring God's rule.

Then it sure sounds like Baha'u'llah is saying he is the guy. He is the promised return. He is the one that is going to establish God's kingdom on Earth. But apparently not. Baha'u'llah has been sent to get a few people into his religion. And to, someday, get them to follow his laws. Tony, if you're listening, you're giving mixed messages here. Has the "promised" day come or not? Has Baha'u'llah brought the truth from God or not? Does he have a plan that will unite the world under on religion, God's religion, and implement God's laws or not?
The Baha'i Faith is a worldwide religion based on the teachings of Baha'u'llah... He stated that the time had come for the people of the world to put aside their differences and to unite on the basis of the teachings that he had brought.

We desire but the good of the world and happiness of the nations.... That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease, and differences of race be annulled... Yet so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the "Most Great Peace" shall come.... These strifes and this bloodshed and discord must cease, and all men be as one kindred and one family.... Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind.... (words spoken by Baha'u'llah to Prof. E.G. Browne of Cambridge University in 1890)​
Click to expand...
Wow. Just wow.
 
TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
CG Didymus said:
Tony, if you're listening, you're giving mixed messages here. Has the "promised" day come or not? Has Baha'u'llah brought the truth from God or not? Does he have a plan that will unite the world under on religion, God's religion, and implement God's laws or not?
Click to expand...

This CG.

".. Now that ye have refused the Most Great Peace, hold ye fast unto this, the Lesser Peace, that haply ye may in some degree better your own condition and that of your dependents... "

Regards Tony
 
lukethethird

lukethethird

unknown member
TransmutingSoul said:
Shoghi Effendi wrote in great detail
"THE GOAL OF A NEW WORLD ORDER" A LETTER OF SHOGHI EFFENDI

". Let there be no mistake. The principle of the Oneness of Mankind—the pivot round which all the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh revolve—is no mere outburst of ignorant emotionalism or an expression of vague and pious hope. Its appeal is not to be merely identified with a re-awakening of the spirit of brotherhood and good-will among men, nor does it aim solely at the fostering of harmonious cooperation among individual peoples and nations. Its implications are deeper, its claims greater than any which the Prophets of old were allowed to advance. Its message is applicable not only to the individual, but concerns itself primarily with the nature of those essential relationships that must bind all the states and nations as members of one human family. It does not constitute merely the enunciation of an ideal, but stands inseparably associated with an institution adequate to embody its truth, demonstrate its validity, and perpetuate its influence. It implies an organic change in the structure of present-day society, a change such as the world has not yet experienced. It constitutes a challenge, at once bold and universal, to outworn shibboleths of national creeds—creeds that have had their day and which must, in the ordinary course of events as shaped and controlled by Providence, give way to a new gospel, fundamentally different from, and infinitely superior to, what the world has already conceived. It calls for no less than the reconstruction and the demilitarization of the whole civilized world—a world organically unified in all the essential aspects of its life, its political machinery, its spiritual aspiration, its trade and finance, its script and language, and yet infinite in the diversity of the national characteristics of its federated units...."

Bahá’í World/Volume 4/The Goal of a New World Order - Bahaiworks, a library of works about the Bahá’í Faith

Regards Tony
Click to expand...
And yet another religion making promises of a better world, will it never end?
 
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