My thoughts on the Romney’s Income Tax Returns and other points. Any rebuke

[esmith]

You aren't taking into account the regressive payroll tax on income that all Americans must pay. The Social Security and Medicare taxes do not come out of our income tax, which heavily favors investment income. The reason that Romney pays little or no income tax is that all of his income has been declared as investment income, which is taxed at a lower rate. And he has a lot of tax loopholes available to him with that kind of income that are not available with normal income.


If they are healthier, it is because they get good preventive medical care. When you have a national health care system, preventive medicine is a cost-saver. That is why, under "Obamacare", insurance plans must include free preventive healthcare measures, including annual checkups.

Don't you realize THAT NOTHING IS FREE!!!!! The majority of private health insurance covers annual physical exams

 

[Alceste]

Don't you realize THAT NOTHING IS FREE!!!!! The majority of private health insurance covers annual physical exams

In Canada, everything is free, except for your visits to the dentist and optometrist, your ambulance rides and your prescription medications.

 

[Revoltingest]

Being an "almost criminal" by using loop holes and grey areas is what got us into this mess to begin with. The rich shouldn't be able to buy their way out of justice.

Have some concrete allegations?

And really as it is said Romneys tax plan would result in him paying less than 1% in taxes....

Have support for that figure?

I can see why he isn't going to release them. I can also see why this isn't a big deal to those who worship the rich and buy that b.s. about being the "job creators" either because they are rich or hope to be rich in the future.

He creates more jobs than those who only dole out money forcibly taken from others, eg, Obama.

 

[esmith]

In Canada, everything is free, except for your visits to the dentist and optometrist, your ambulance rides and your prescription medications.

No they are not free, where does the money come from to pay for these services....TAXES

 

[Alceste]

No they are not free, where does the money come from to pay for these services....TAXES

Yep, and our tax funded health care spending is about half your private + public health care spending.

"Free health care", in the mouths of us fortunate folks who have it, means "free at the point of service", as you would already know if you knew anything at all about universal health care. Yes, we know we pay taxes to cover the cost. No, we don't have a problem with that. Taxes are SUPPOSED to pay for services.

 

[esmith]

Yep, and our tax funded health care spending is about half your private + public health care spending.

"Free health care", in the mouths of us fortunate folks who have it, means "free at the point of service", as you would already know if you knew anything at all about universal health care. Yes, we know we pay taxes to cover the cost. No, we don't have a problem with that. Taxes are SUPPOSED to pay for services.

Yes and that is why people like Obama get elected. They promise "free stuff" and like the children in the Pied Piper they are led away.

 

[Shermana]

Yes and that is why people like Obama get elected. They promise "free stuff" and like the children in the Pied Piper they are led away.

For all this talk about Obama offering Free Health Care, Bush sure seemed to offer Seniors their Medicaid meds to the tune of about a trillion a year, but you won't see too many Republicans complaining about that for some reason.

 

[Alceste]

Yes and that is why people like Obama get elected. They promise "free stuff" and like the children in the Pied Piper they are led away.

Yes, people who always vote for centrists (like Obama) or leftists (like all Canadian politicians) get "led away" to a health care system where everybody gets all the health care they need all the time, without ever receiving a bill, and it costs them half as much as it costs their idiot right-wing neighbours to the south to get part of the care they need some of the time, and then get charged an arm and a leg for it.

 

[Copernicus]

Don't you realize THAT NOTHING IS FREE!!!!! The majority of private health insurance covers annual physical exams

Don't be obtuse. You know perfectly well what I meant, but you chose to construe it differently. Many health insurance plans exclude preventive care entirely or impose copayments. Under the ACA, the patient pays nothing for those exams. That is, they are cost-free to the patient.

 

[esmith]

Don't be obtuse. You know perfectly well what I meant, but you chose to construe it differently. Many health insurance plans exclude preventive care entirely or impose copayments. Under the ACA, the patient pays nothing for those exams. That is, they are cost-free to the patient.

Directly yes, indirectly no

 

[Alceste]

Directly yes, indirectly no

The point of universal health care is that there are no direct costs to citizens (apart from a few nickels and dimes here and there). You would have to be REALLY slow not to grasp that basic concept. Your tax returns have nothing to do with the level of care you are entitled to. Everybody gets health care whenever they need it. Period. Nobody gets a bill for it. Period.

 

[s2a]

Tell you all what...I'll return to the thread when it gets on topic again...

 

[Alceste]

Tell you all what...I'll return to the thread when it gets on topic again...

Allow me to segue: I'll bet Romney is trying to conceal the fact that if he paid as much in tax as a middle class American citizen as a percentage of his income, he could personally finance the entire transition to a universal health care system.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Yes and that is why people like Obama get elected. They promise "free stuff" and like the children in the Pied Piper they are led away.

Romney was once for Universal Healthcare, not only for and providing it to residents of Massachusetts, but actually saying it would be good for the whole country......now he's flip flopped because it's not a good look for his political aspirations.

But let's not forget that we already provide Universal Healthcare to Congress and our military.....I'd venture to go as far and say Medicaid and Medicare are forms of universal coverage

 

[Alceste]

Romney was once for Universal Healthcare, not only for and providing it to residents of Massachusetts, but actually saying it would be good for the whole country......now he's flip flopped because it's not a good look for his political aspirations.

But let's not forget that we already provide Universal Healthcare to Congress and our military.....I'd venture to go as far and say Medicaid and Medicare are forms of universal coverage

You can't properly use the word "universal" unless your entire health care system is... well, universal. What the US has with medicare, medicaid, and for members of the military and congress, is perhaps a "viable, effective framework for publicly funded health care", but certainly not "universal health care". Even Romneycare in Mass. is not "universal". It only expands medicare to cover "most" of the people in Mass. who can't afford private insurance.

I feel like I can never really explain how different "universal health care" is to what Americans have, except to say that no Canadian citizen directly pays for any medically necessary health care cost, ever.

Nobody.

Ever.

You can't get there by a little bit of tweaking here and there. You have to elect people who will decisively say to your insurance companies "You know what? Feck off. We value our own health more than we value your profits". Then it's done.

 

[Copernicus]

Directly yes, indirectly no

Actually, you're wrong about that, as well. Preventive maintenance is cheaper than the alternative of trying to cure what was preventable. That's why public health care plans are more cost-effective than those that encourage people not to get regular checkups. So it ultimately lowers the "indirect" cost, which, in our case, will be in the form of lower premiums paid to private insurance companies. Not in my case, though, because I am going on Medicare in a couple of months. So my overall costs (with supplemental "medigap" insurance and all the copays and Plan B premiums and other gotchas) will be several thousand dollars per year out of pocket.

Romney made the same arguments and supported a public mandate when he was governor of Massachusetts. Obama, a former Massachusetts resident, seems to have modeled his approach after Romney's. The only reason that Romney threatens to repeal "Obamacare" is that he would never have gotten the nomination by supporting what he originally promoted. Is he going to sincerely try to repeal the ACA? I really doubt he is sincere about it, but most people who will vote for him aren't duped either. They will support him primarily because he is not Obama.

 

[Reverend Rick]

It got worse after the ignorant votes in 2010 by republicans. People were voting on fear as usual. After the election, congress ratings dropped even further. More proof that people were voting wrong.

Today, the Tea Party is a huge ball and chain on the GOP. They can only blame themselves for the mess.

Joe? Is that you? I guess we will put you all back in chains, right?

We all know the Dem's would never use fear tactics in this election right? Pushing grandma over the cliff and all.

I guess when you have 4 years of failed policies, that is all that is left to run on.

Let me tell you what is ignorant. When you have the majority in the House and Senate with the President in waiting with a rubber stamp and can't pass a single payer health care system. Then after not one Republican votes for the health care bill, you blame them because you had to compromise?

Blame the Republicans! Blame George W. Bush!

When is your messiah going to take responsibility for anything?

 

[Reverend Richard]

You've got a long way to go before Universal Health care. Obama just made some very minor common-sense regulations regarding what private insurance companies can and can not do to increase their profits, then threw them a huge bone by compelling Americans to get private insurance or pay a health care levy, and taking public sector competition off the table.

However, even though the adjustments are very minor, and fall a long way short of a civilized (AKA universal) health care system, it still cost him his majority. I think because over half the Americans who bother to vote are idiots.

I did say we were on the verge of having Universal Health Care. We are not there yet, and I agree that what we ended up with was a very watered down version. Because the Republicans wanted no part of a Democratic plan, they stonewalled cooperating. Romney himself (while Governor) had already instituted a similar mandated health care plan in the state of Massachusetts, complete with tax penalties for those who failed to sign up. Go figure.

 

[Reverend Richard]

Originally Posted by Alceste
I think because over half the Americans who bother to vote are idiots.

I agree, based upon 2008.

And the other half are bleeting sheep...

 

[Reverend Richard]

...............I feel like I can never really explain how different "universal health care" is to what Americans have, except to say that no Canadian citizen directly pays for any medically necessary health care cost, ever.

Nobody.

Ever.

You can't get there by a little bit of tweaking here and there. You have to elect people who will decisively say to your insurance companies "You know what? Feck off. We value our own health more than we value your profits". Then it's done.

Careful, Alceste! You are on the verge of being called a socialist! (But not by me.)