Love the sinner hate the sin?

[Ðanisty]

Actually, I don't think that's sinful. I think that's misguided.

You don't think it's sinful that I not only reject God, but loathe him? You don't think it's sinful that I have carefully chosen to deny Jesus as my savior and willfully walk a path with a fallen angel? You don't think it's a sin that I practice occult magick? I don't buy that. I am aware that Christians find find these things sinful.

is there a difference?

Apparently loving someone of the same gender is worse than outright declaring hatred for the Christian God. I'm not sure what the difference is, to be honest.

We have to hate sin. If we don't hate sin, why not just jump head first into it?

So your position is that there are only two opposing emotions (love and hate) and it is impossible to feel anything in between or even outside of the realm of those two emotions.

sin is knowingly doing that which you know you should not do. Misguidence is doing what you should be not be doing either because a) you don't know you shouldn't be doing it or b) you think you should be doing it.

And what precisely is it if you are aware that Christians think it's a sin and choose to do it anyway because you aren't Christian?

 

[Mike182]

sin is knowingly doing that which you know you should not do. Misguidence is doing what you should be not be doing either because a) you don't know you shouldn't be doing it or b) you think you should be doing it.

but surely both are of the same consequence to the christian God

 

[Aqualung]

Actually, no. I can think that you are judging without judging you for doing so. That's not my job to judge. It's God's.

Okay, so how am I judging? It's exactly the same thing. YOu think judging is a sin, but you can recognise that somebody is judging (ie, sinning) without judging yourself. All I am doing is recognising that sombody is sinning, too.

 

[Aqualung]

but surely both are of the same consequence to the christian God

No, they are both not of the same consequence. God judges our hearts, not just our actions. People who die without the law are not judged by the law. There's a billion scriptural references out there to it, but unfortunately I'm at work, so I can't name any of them.

 

[Aqualung]

You don't think it's sinful that I not only reject God, but loathe him? You don't think it's sinful that I have carefully chosen to deny Jesus as my savior and willfully walk a path with a fallen angel? You don't think it's a sin that I practice occult magick? I don't buy that. I am aware that Christians find find these things sinful.

Well, you can go ahead and "not buy" it, but it's true.

Apparently loving someone of the same gender is worse than outright declaring hatred for the Christian God. I'm not sure what the difference is, to be honest.

Yes, because that's exactly what I said.

So your position is that there are only two opposing emotions (love and hate) and it is impossible to feel anything in between or even outside of the realm of those two emotions.

If you are not with me you are against me.

And what precisely is it if you are aware that Christians think it's a sin and choose to do it anyway because you aren't Christian?

I think that would be "A"

 

[pdoel]

Okay, so how am I judging? It's exactly the same thing. YOu think judging is a sin, but you can recognise that somebody is judging (ie, sinning) without judging yourself. All I am doing is recognising that sombody is sinning, too.

There's quite a bit more involved. You have said many times you do not accept homosexuality. You don't want to restict homosexuals or remove rights from them, but you have said you cannot accept homosexuality.

That's the difference. I may not share your beliefs, but I commend you on having them and following the lifestyle that you think is correct. While I don't think it's ok to judge, I understand that you think it is ok. So I have no problem with that. You are living the life your faith tells you to, as I am living mine.

 

[Nehustan]

Well I hope that this does not insult people, and its not meant to, but let me recount a story...

My wife and I were sat with our daughter and there was an image on the TV of a homsexual couple. Our four year old daughter (as was she is now five) made a disapproving noise, to which my wife asked 'Whats wrong?' Our daughter said 'Allah would be angry.' I spoke to my daughter and said to her almost word for word from the topic 'That Allah hates some actions, but does not want us to hate people, that it is he who is judge.' Ok I can hear you say you have obviously been indoctrinating your children, well to a point this is true. We have talked to her about Allah, about a life to come, about how Allah is absolute and infinite, beyond the universe, supporter of all, BUT at no time have we voiced any opinion about homosexuality to her, nor does the topic ever arise in our household in reagards to a negative ideology toward people following that sexuality.

I think you will have a long wait for believers to state that they love what God has said he hates, but if people are wise enough to leave judgement to God, not casting 'the first stone', and do not patronise you, while not being happy that they do not affirm your sexuality, you can expect naught else.

I hope this post is consider in the light of its intention.

(P.S. I just read my post back through and there is a fault in it. I state that at no time had we indoctrinated our daughter about homsexuality. I must add that this was prior her to bringing it up in said situation. Admittedly my reply to my daughter after her voicing her opinion is of course indoctrination, what I meant was that PRIOR to this event we had not started her indoctrination on this matter.)

 

[Mike182]

No, they are both not of the same consequence. God judges our hearts, not just our actions. People who die without the law are not judged by the law. There's a billion scriptural references out there to it, but unfortunately I'm at work, so I can't name any of them.

ok, i can agree with that.

 

[Aqualung]

There's quite a bit more involved. You have said many times you do not accept homosexuality. You don't want to restict homosexuals or remove rights from them, but you have said you cannot accept homosexuality.

That's the difference. I may not share your beliefs, but I commend you on having them and following the lifestyle that you think is correct. While I don't think it's ok to judge, I understand that you think it is ok. So I have no problem with that. You are living the life your faith tells you to, as I am living mine.

I say I cannot accept homosexuality. But I can accept and do accept homosexuals.

I think you will have a long wait for believers to state that they love what God has said he hates, but if people are wise enough to leave judgement to God, not casting 'the first stone', and do not patronise you, while not being happy that they do not affirm your sexuality, you can expect naught else.

Is recognising a sin "casting stones"? No. It's recognising a sin. You can only cast stones once you start hating the sinner.

 

[linwood]

Sometimes the truth hurts

But it `s not the truth Aqualung.
It`s not even your truth.
It`s truth that was given to you for some unknown reason.

 

[Aqualung]

But it `s not the truth Aqualung.
It`s not even your truth.
It`s truth that was given to you for some unknown reason.

Oh, but it is my truth. How can you say that it isn't? Do you know what my truth is? Are you the worlds expert on Aqualung's Truth? Because if you are, you should publish your findings. They would be very helpful for me.

 

[pdoel]

I say I cannot accept homosexuality. But I can accept and do accept homosexuals.

Well, that's great. But I guess my next question is, if you are so accepting, why are there a dozen or more debates, all with page after page after page, of you saying that homosexuality is wrong? It really doesn't sound like you are as accepting as you say.

To be honest, after awhile, it just gets old hearing how homosexuality is a sin. I feel like I'm being preached to. I don't follow your beliefs. According to you, those who do not follow faith will not be judged by it. So what is the point of telling me that homosexuality is a sin if my faith says it is not?

 

[Aqualung]

Well, that's great. But I guess my next question is, if you are so accepting, why are there a dozen or more debates, all with page after page after page, of you saying that homosexuality is wrong? It really doesn't sound like you are as accepting as you say.

Because I"m saying homosexulity is wrong, not homosexuals are wrong. There's a huge difference.

To be honest, after awhile, it just gets old hearing how homosexuality is a sin. I feel like I'm being preached to. I don't follow your beliefs. According to you, those who do not follow faith will not be judged by it. So what is the point of telling me that homosexuality is a sin if my faith says it is not?

Well, then, you should not participate in these debates. Other people are starting threads. The titles are pretty obvious. You should just not look in them. It's really quite simple. Debate forums are for debating. If it hurts your feelings to see people debating, leave.

 

[linwood]

Oh, but it is my truth. How can you say that it isn't? Do you know what my truth is? Are you the worlds expert on Aqualung's Truth? Because if you are, you should publish your findings. They would be very helpful for me.

Ok, then what is your reason for believing homosexuality is a sin?
What is your reason for this truth?

 

[Mike182]

Oh, but it is my truth. How can you say that it isn't? Do you know what my truth is? Are you the worlds expert on Aqualung's Truth? Because if you are, you should publish your findings. They would be very helpful for me.

i like the way you can make these sarcastic comments to defend what you see as truth, but state that danisty is misguided in what she sees as her truth.

 

[Aqualung]

This isn't about homosexuality! :banghead3 Why does everything have to turn into that?!

My reason is revelation given by the prophet for this.

 

[pdoel]

Because I"m saying homosexulity is wrong, not homosexuals are wrong. There's a huge difference.

Well, then, you should not participate in these debates. Other people are starting threads. The titles are pretty obvious. You should just not look in them. It's really quite simple. Debate forums are for debating. If it hurts your feelings to see people debating, leave.

I understand that, I have no problem debating. I guess you missed the point. What I'm saying is, you say you accept homosexuals, but do not accept homosexuality. You love the sinner, but hate the sin.

However, at the same time you say that those without faith will not be judged. Only if you have a faith and you go against it, will you be judged.

But yet, there are pages upon pages upon pages where you tell people they are sinners. I dunno. That doesn't sound very accepting to me. That's preaching.

Your views and your posts are very contradictory. That's all.

I mean, if we cut through half the posts we have:

Homosexuality is wrong. My Bible tells me it's wrong. It's a sin. Homosexuality is a horrible sin. Homosexuality is an abomination. If you go into homosexuality, you are a sinner. It's a sin, it's a sin it's a sin. I'm against homosexuality.

Um, but I accept the person.

After awhile, it doesn't sound so much like you do.

 

[pdoel]

i like the way you can make these sarcastic comments to defend what you see as truth, but state that danisty is misguided in what she sees as her truth.

Exactly! Excellent point.

 

[linwood]

My reason is revelation given by the prophet for this.

That is dogma and as I said it was "given" to you, you did not discover it through your own introspection.

It is a "truth" you adopted, it is not a "truth" you formulated within yourself.

It`s not "your truth", it`s Christianitys.

 

[Ðanisty]

I think that would be "A"

But I do know that according to you, I shouldn't be doing it. Are you suggesting that my "misguidance" can only be a sin if I consider myself a Christian?

i like the way you can make these sarcastic comments to defend what you see as truth, but state that danisty is misguided in what she sees as her truth.

Thank you Mike, I was about to address this myself. I'm not going about claiming that mormons are misguided or that they sin. I also don't feel that, because mormons are Christian and believe in the goodness of their god (the god which is my enemy), I have to hate their beliefs. I disagree with them, but I do not hate them. I also don't fear that I will accidentally start to agree with them just because I don't hate them.

That is dogma and as I said it was "given" to you, you did not discover it through your own introspection.

It is a "truth" you adopted, it is not a "truth" you formulated within yourself.

Excellent point! Frubals to you.