Lets solve the school shooting problem

[Twilight Hue]

While I agree that this current generation of children is severely lacking in discipline, it doesn’t have to remain that way. I was training with shotguns at church camp as a child, and we all had the sense not to shoot each other.

I would support a gradual move towards incorporating mandatory firearm courses in schools, so that children do not fear them, but respect and value them, as well as each others’ lives, while learning to safety operate and maintain them. This would provide a nice stepping stone for those looking to pursue careers in military and law enforcement, while at the same time providing the public with a greater sense of confidence, security, discipline, and general respect towards each other.

I would love to see a return of a rifle club in schools. Not only does it teach safety and familiarity of firearms , there are shooting competitions held between schools same as varsity sports.

Lot of fun when without getting paranoid about weapons use and an opportunity to bring military recruiting personnel back into high schools. ROTC and the like.

 

[metis]

Some may find this interesting, and it's from last evening:
Steve Kerr Delivers Powerful Message After Mass Shooting At Elementary School - YouTube

 

[Left Coast]

I was training with shotguns at church camp as a child...

...sorry, you did what at "church camp?"

You and I went to very different church camps.

These mass shootings will not end until we face the fact that our culture is obsessed with firearms and we are swimming in them. That is the fundamental issue.

 

[suncowiam]

No, no, no

Gun control, not retaliations or arming schools is the answer.

In the UK in 1996 we had the Dunblane school killings.
Dunblane massacre - Wikipedia

Following that, stricter gun controls were imposed ... there have been no more massacres at schools in UK since. Now I realise there could be one tomorrow but if they do what you suggest, there will be more in the states only next time it'll be a shootout with kids caught in the crossfire.

Folks in 'Merica don't care for your statistics and real world examples.

Oh and don't even start with Australia's real world solution to gun violence.

NO. Not in the glorious US of A.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I would love to see a return of a rifle club in schools. Not only does it teach safety and familiarity of firearms , there are shooting competitions held between schools same as varsity sports.

Lot of fun when without getting paranoid about weapons use and an opportunity to bring military recruiting personnel back into high schools. ROTC and the like.

How do you reconcile that with your view of children today? Yes, you know what I mean.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

The problem with your solution is it doesn't solve anything at the fundamental level, because you end up in a rat race of measure and countermeasure. Can't attack a school as easy? Then attack a school bus. You really won't solve anything.

Are you ok with armed security at airports, sporting events, banks etc? Why is a school different?

 

[Wildswanderer]

There are just under 100,000 public schools in the United States. If we had an average of 2 paid trained federal police officers at each school at a cost of $100,000 a piece for training, wages and benefits. We would need $20 billion per year. This is peanuts. In the US budget we have a line item for retooling manufacture facilities of $27B. I say we find the $20B in our budget and add an average of 2 federal trained armed police officers at each school in America.

Why would this be a bad idea? We could pass strong gun laws tomorrow but that will not stop a shooter going into our schools any time soon. We could have trained professional security guards in our schools in months. This is a common sense solution since we will never be able to stop a person from obtaining an illegal gun and shooting kids.

Don't many schools already have armed guards and metal detectors? I know here they have a guard and they have to ring people in, you can't just walk into a school.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

It seems to me that you are just passing the problem on. How do you determine if one of those apparently protecting the children doesn't go awol (in his/her head), given they have the means to kill others readily at hand. Or that their weapons might be taken off them in some subterfuge. More weapons from the evidence seems to imply more deaths - and perhaps just shifting who is killed rather than the amount going down. Seems many just can't accept that it is the number of weapons in circulation that is the problem, and hence all sorts of other solutions are proposed other than the real one being recognised - and dealt with - as to removing the vast majority in circulation.

To my mind, the USA has driven into a cul-de-sac with regards owning such weapons and few can see an acceptable way out.

Do you see armed security guards at banks and airports going on killing spree's?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

No, no, no

Gun control, not retaliations or arming schools is the answer.

In the UK in 1996 we had the Dunblane school killings.
Dunblane massacre - Wikipedia

Following that, stricter gun controls were imposed ... there have been no more massacres at schools in UK since.

My question to you is if we institute strict gun laws today, how will that prevent a school shooting in September?

[Now I realise there could be one tomorrow but if they do what you suggest, there will be more in the states only next time it'll be a shootout with kids caught in the crossfire.

This is an insane comment. I would rather have a shootout between a killer and a police officer than a killer freely left alone to kill any child they want. What are you thinking?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I think a simple metal detection setup would suffice. A lot of government institutions have them already as a stop gap measure. It shouldn't be a tremendous headache I think in the interim.

Without armed police officers how does a metal detector help?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

The armed deputy who was on campus at Marjory Stoneman Douglas high school when a gunman massacred 17 people stood outside the building as it occurred and did not go in to engage the shooter, the Broward County sheriff, Scott Israel, said on Thursday.

Deputy Scot Peterson, who was the school resource officer at Stoneman Douglas in Parkland, Florida, resigned from the department on Thursday after being told he would be suspended, Israel said.

Armed guard at Florida high school failed to enter building and stop shooter

So one example of a coward police officer is a reason for you to not put any armed police in schools. Ok. It was an armed police officer that stopped this killer.

Not to mention a large number of cops in the US appear to be dangerously incompetent, so there is a high chance of the odd innocent child being shot.

How many are dangerously incompetent?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I don't see how this solves anything. Best case scenario you reduce the body count.

And this is not a good outcome to you? Those bodies you are counting are our children.

How long does it take to shoot at a dozen people?

I would not matter how long if they were never challenged by an armed police officer. They could take their sweet time.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

You just have to accept that school shootings are going to happen when you have easily accessible guns. It is the price you have to pay.

So because they will happen is no reason to protect our children with armed police? Do you have this same attitude with airports, banks, or Hollywood events?

We need to do something long term, but short term I see no other solution to protect the kids ASAP.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

How does this stop the next shooting? it takes time to train those security people. And they won't be everywhere. Many of the shootings that have occurred were in places with armed security: the security people just got shot also.

With good leadership we could have trained police officers at each school in teh nation by next fall. I am tired of people picking one example and then saying we should not protect our kids. If we passed strict gun laws tomorrow how will that protect our kids in the fall?

Let's face it. We aren't going to stop the next shooting. We probably won't stop the next 10 shootings. But if we figure out what to do (a combination of better mental health care, limiting access to guns, and better security) and commit to it, we might be able to reduce the number of deaths over the next decade.

I agree, but I am not going to just let these loons kill our children and say we cannot do anything about it and wait for the laws to catch up. Armed police officers is the short term solution.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

It would be a step in the right direction, imo, however what we have seen over and over again is that even police are not as well armed as some of these shooters have been. Also, study after study have shown that the great proliferation of such guns is a very large part of the problem since the U.S. have more than one gun per person in this country on the average.

Again, why do so many people have one issue and then say we cannot do anything? Maybe we arm the police with better weapons. I am looking for a short tern solution, any gun laws we enact will not stop a shooting in the near future. The best solution as I see it for the short term is armed police at each school ASAP.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Don't many schools already have armed guards and metal detectors? I know here they have a guard and they have to ring people in, you can't just walk into a school.

Some high schools do but not the elementary and middle schools.

 

[Aštra’el]

...sorry, you did what at "church camp?"

You and I went to very different church camps.

It was so much fun back then when I went. (late 90s)

The firearms activities were only a small part of a much larger experience. We also had archery contests, learnt survival skills in the wilderness, created art, studied the Bible, competed in sports and obstacle courses, enjoyed the river for recreation, ate amazing food, and of course- celebrated God with music/ prayer/ ritual/ church service/ testimony/ celebration/ etc.

My experiences with Christianity were awesome.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Are you ok with armed security at airports, sporting events, banks etc? Why is a school different?

It is not that it is different as such. But for a certain type of attacker it won't stop them. They are not rational in that sense.

 

[Koldo]

And this is not a good outcome to you? Those bodies you are counting are our children.

I would not matter how long if they were never challenged by an armed police officer. They could take their sweet time.

It is a good outcome. But let's not pretend it is a solution. If you want to actually solve the problem you need to address the source of the problem: guns are readily available to almost anyone in the USA.

 

[Koldo]

So because they will happen is no reason to protect our children with armed police? Do you have this same attitude with airports, banks, or Hollywood events?

We need to do something long term, but short term I see no other solution to protect the kids ASAP.

There is no short term solution though.