Islamaphobia

[LuisDantas]

Not so difficult when you get to know some Muslims, though. Remarkably, despite Maine having a pretty low diversity I've gotten to know some very fine Muslim folks who practice their religion in ways that are as moderate and inspiring as any other.

Are there large groups if Muslims in Middle Eastern countries wanting to enact strict religious laws and destroy all I hold dear? Probably. But this is likely true of other groups as well, and considering the damage we have done in the Middle East, I can sympathize with some of the hatred (even while I don't condone it).

I want to point out that I make a definite distintion between Islaam as an ideology and doctrine and Muslims as individuals.

Islaam is remarkable. Muslims are often remarkable for the very opposite reasons. That is to be expected. Few things spur people towards some direction than the direct awareness of how terrible the alternative is.

I never denied that most Muslims are good people. I do point out that Islaam is a terrible, terrible doctrine when it comes to encouraging them to be or remain good people, and benefits from the natural instincts of people to improve their doctrines far more than random creeds do, and a whole lot more than it ever allows itself to acknowledge.

 

[England my lionheart]

I think we likely agree on this, actually. While I still find meaning and inspiration in some Christian mythology and find elements of Islamic culture beautiful and meaningful, I have no loyalty to either one.

At the same time I feel no particular reason to single out Islam in a political climate with some clear Islamic bigotry.

It's not bigotry it's history,muhammed ran from mecca to yathrib/Medina,lacked money,did some raiding and killed the Jews there.

If there was a Jesus the story is completely different.

 

[paarsurrey]

I appreciate your apology.

If you read my first post I did ask a question specifically about Islamophobia. I explained how I perceived Sharia (rightly or wrongly). There are aspects to Sharia that do concern many people in the West. Some of my Baha'i friends fled Iran after the Iranian revolution in 1979. I spoke to an Iranian women online recently who converted from Islam to the Baha'i Faith but was extremely worried about apostasy laws in her country. As you will appreciate converting from Islam to another religion is not easy in some parts of the world.

My point in asking the question as I did, was to bring attention to an aspect of Islam that does cause concern for Westerners such as myself. So perhaps some recommended online resources from a more neutral source would be helpful if Wikipedia is too biased.

As you may appreciate I'm slightly atypical for Western men in my country. That is because I follow a religion that is often not well understood and many people have never heard of. One aspect of being a Baha'i is we believe Muhammad to be a Manifestation of God and the Quran to be the authenticated repository of the Word of God. I have a copy of the Quran by my bedside but that has been over two years. I feel I've learnt a lot about Islam over that time and part of my education is online chats such as this one.

So I'm genuinely interested in a dialogue about Islam. Perhaps I can be a little prickly at times, especially when I consider people I know who have been adversely affected by Islam's dark side. However I also believe Muhammad brought a great light to the world through the Holy Quran.

Good on you for bringing up an important topic for many of us to consider.

"So I'm genuinely interested in a dialogue about Islam."

Then one should read Quran from cover to cover to enrich one's experience with Quran*. It is not a voluminous book, the one I read from in Arabic fits just in the pocket of a normal shirt easily, and it belongs to an important world Religion. Then one could know as to what the Quran is.
Is one seriously interested, please?

Regards
___________
* as envisaged in my posts Post #116 and Post #1219

 

[Shad]

Why would u.s come into that comment?

The comment I replied to talked about decriminalization of homosexuality which was never actually illegal in the US. You later name dropped Stalin for some reason.

Brother. I think you should read the o.p.

Read the comment chain.

Not that I expect you to make any change of course.

What change? You babbled about the US and were wrong. You then babbled about Stalin as if Stalin was some sort of figure people look up to here.

You lost track of the conversation, nothing more.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It's not complex at all according to whoever authored the quran,"We have revealed the Book to you explaining clearly everything (16:89),oh well.

Um, okay...When referring to complexity I'm referring to the socio-political system regarding customs such as prayer, ablution, having arguments etc.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The belief that sharia should extend to non-Muslims is most widespread in the Middle East and North Africa, where at least four-in-ten Muslims in all countries except Iraq (38%) and Morocco (29%) hold this opinion. Egyptian Muslims (74%) are the most likely to say it should apply to Muslims and non-Muslims alike, while 58% in Jordan hold this view.

And I respond to this using my source to which you quoted:

Huddud laws are only a tiny part of Sharia and can only be applied by an Islamic state; it is questionable if any of the nations claiming to be “Islamic states” actually fit that description morally or structurally, so these laws are generally not applicable in a modern context,

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Come back when you want to be listened to, please. It is clearly not the case right now.

Ok boss.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

You have a hard time replying to an intelligent response, don't you!!

Thanks. I'm not tripping it is what it is.

 

[LuisDantas]

"So I'm genuinely interested in a dialogue about Islam."

Then one should read Quran from cover to cover to enrich one's experience with Quran*. It is not a voluminous book, the one I read from in Arabic fits just in the pocket of a normal shirt easily, and it belongs to an important world Religion. Then one could know as to what the Quran is.
Is one seriously interested, please?

Regards
___________
* as envisaged in my posts Post #116 and Post #1219

Honest question: are you prepared to believe in anyone who does in fact read the Qur'an and declares that it is not inspiring or positive as scripture?

 

[LuisDantas]

Ok boss.

I am hardly your boss.

But you can hardly expect me to submit to your unfair smearing. You are an adult and I will treat you as one.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I want to point out that I make a definite distintion between Islaam as an ideology and doctrine and Muslims as individuals.

Islaam is remarkable. Muslims are often remarkable for the very opposite reasons. That is to be expected. Few things spur people towards some direction than the direct awareness of how terrible the alternative is.

I don't doubt your sincerity here. My point was to suggest that Islam is a bit easier to defend knowing that some folks glean good humanitarian and existential inspiration from it. That it can also bring out the worst in people doesn't distract me from defending it as readily as I would any other religion.

Alternatively, that doesn't distract me from criticizing the worst that can come from it especially when it involves policy and treatment of other people.

I never denied that most Muslims are good people. I do point out that Islaam is a terrible, terrible doctrine when it comes to encouraging them to be or remain good people, and benefits from the natural instincts of people to improve their doctrines far more than random creeds do, and a whole lot more than it ever allows itself to acknowledge.

How is Islam different from others in this respect? The other creeds, I mean.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

It's not bigotry it's history,muhammed ran from mecca to yathrib/Medina,lacked money,did some raiding and killed the Jews there.

If there was a Jesus the story is completely different.

The bigotry I refer to is this association of Muslims with all things terrible that has become a trend here in the U.S.

 

[Dawnofhope]

They should do a poll of how many Islamophobic bigots there are, actually I checked online and Pew did do research on that topic, and they did a lot of studies of which you are handpicking small segments of their research to support what appears to be an Islamophobic agenda. pure and simple.

Pew: Christian, Muslim persecution most widespread

I'm pleased you accepted my offer to do some research. I wondered if you have read the paper?

In the introduction it says:

Christians and Muslims are persecuted in more countries than any other religious group, Pew Research Center said in a decade-long study showing high levels of persecution in 42 percent of countries studied.

Christians and Muslims, the largest and most widespread globally of any group, experienced government and/or social religious persecution in 143 and 140 countries respectively, Pew said in the latest installment of its study on religious restrictions around the world. But persecution levels varied among countries.

Pew: Christian, Muslim persecution most widespread

That's a lot of persecuting going on based on religious affiliation. Have you wondered what countries do the most persecuting? At the bottom of the article there's the website to another paper.

How Religious Restrictions Have Risen Around the World

 

[firedragon]

I’m just reflecting how dismissive your statement came across to me personally. Say if a woman from Uzbekistan discloses to another she was sexually assaulted, and the response is “Well lots of people including men get sexually assaulted all the time. Besides, your from Uzbekistan and whose heard of that place.” What’s a gal to think? It doesn’t matter what’s said after that. She ain’t gonna hear a word of it.

Not really. You completely twisted what it said because of maybe a preposition of yours. Thanks for that. Cheers.

 

[firedragon]

The comment I replied to talked about decriminalization of homosexuality which was never actually illegal in the US. You later name dropped Stalin for some reason.

that was just an example, not a focus on one. The thing is, reading something you should be open minded.

 

[firedragon]

It's not bigotry it's history,muhammed ran from mecca to yathrib/Medina,lacked money,did some raiding and killed the Jews there.

If there was a Jesus the story is completely different.

I think you would be a good customer.

 

[Notanumber]

Well, the vile will wonder that way.

The vile are the wife beaters.

 

[firedragon]

The vile are the wife beaters.

Of course. Finally you made a correct statement.

 

[firedragon]

The vile are the wife beaters.

You claim that all Muslims are wife beaters?

 

[Notanumber]

Of course. Finally you made a correct statement.

You claim that all Muslims are wife beaters?

The religion that they follow that promotes such actions is also vile.

I am not even suggesting that all Muslims would take their religion that seriously.

Not all Muslim women wear the hijab, niqab & burka.