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Featured Islamaphobia

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by firedragon, Sep 18, 2019.

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  1. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Islamaphobia

    The reason I dont like this word is because I think its wrong. I was told that a phobia is when someone has an irrational fear of something and they know that the fear is irrational but they still fear it. Its a psychological condition.

    But what this word represents is not that. Because people dont know that this fear is irrational. They actually believe that this fear is rational. So being a scientific or a medical term it’s wrong.

    But then again one must admit that there are many wrong words that have been established now and you cant take them back so we have no choice but to go along. Like the word Jihadist. Everyone knows what a Jihadist means. A Jihadist is a person who identifies himself as a Muslim and uses his theology to fight for something in his country or for a cause. But this word doesn’t make sense to many people if you look at it scientifically.

    If you look at the Quran which is deemed the textbook of the arabic language, the word Jihad means “to try”. So what does the word Jihadist mean? So this word is a problem in its essence. But it’s established and one cant change what it represents.

    And the word “awful”. Sometime ago if a person says “my king is awful” it would have meant “full of awe”. Now it’s the exact opposite. If I say “you as a thug are awful” to a drug lord I will get killed. Awful now means the opposite of Awesome. Strange world isn’t it?

    So bottomline is this word is now established and one cannot change it.

    Does Islamaphobia exist? Yes it definitely does. It exists mostly in the hands of writers and speakers who make a career out of it. There is no easier way to come to the limelight by speaking nonsense than to use Islamaphobia.

    Recently I read a comment about an article that read “woman burns Quran in protest against rape”. She alludes that Muslims are rapists. She is American and there are only 1% Muslims in the country. Its a illusion she is trying to create but I’m sure she will get famous or at least this is an attempt to.

    It is common to see many people associate terrorism with Islam. Islam is the motherload of bad ideas says Sam Harris. Hitler picked up his ideas from Islam says Ali Sina. Many people make a lot of claims like this and sell books. Robert Morey, Robert Spencer etc. If one analyses the history of the world, there has been thousands and thousands of wars between people. If you read the Encyclopedia of Wars by Charles Phillip and Alan Axelrod you will see they have data filling over 1,400 pages as if the world was at war more than governance. Religion is a language that people use to identify themselves. Buddhism teaches us not to hate anyone because hatred cannot be mulled by hatred but the lack of hatred alone. That didn’t stop Buddhist monks in Myanmar from promoting violence. Jesus is quoted to have said to give the other cheek, but that didn’t stop the church from the inquisition as henry Charles lea, the American historian, civic reformer, and political activist remarked in his most famous book A History of the Inquisition of the Middle Ages, “Christendom seemed to have grown delirious and Satan might well smile at the tribute to his power in the endless smoke of the holocaust which bore witness to the triumph of the Almighty.”

    Religion
    man named Robert A. Pape, PhD and founder of Chicago Project on Security and Terrorism, a very well-known political scientist from the United States of America compiled a database of all suicide attacks from 1980 to 2003 with an extensive research of news in all available media outlets. His book was called Dying to Win, The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism and in the introduction section he says

    “The data show that there is little connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism, or any one of the world’s religions. In fact, the leading instigators of suicide attacks are the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, a Marxist-Leninist group whose members are from Hindu families but who are adamantly opposed to religion. This group committed 76 of the 315 incidents, more suicide attacks than Hamas. Rather, what nearly all suicide terrorist attacks have in common is a specific secular and strategic goal: to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from territory that the terrorists consider to be their homeland. Religion is rarely the root cause, although it is often used as a tool by terrorist organisations in recruiting and in other efforts in service of the broader strategic objective. Three general patterns in the data support my conclusions. First, nearly all suicide terrorist attacks occur as part of organized campaigns, not as isolated or random incidents. Of the 315 separate attacks in the period I studied, 301 could have their roots traced to large, coherent political or military campaigns.”

    Robert Pape goes to explain various levels of terrorism while suicide terrorism is the most extreme. He gives an example “One LTTE suicide attacker was motivated by the thought that the Sinhalese Buddhists would destroy the Hindu temples near her village, even though she had never visited them.”

    He says “Two main explanations have been offered thus far. The first argues that local competition between the LTTE and other Tamil guerrilla groups encouraged the LTTE to use the extreme tactic of suicide to distinguish itself from its rivals. The second explanation stresses the “cult-like” behaviour of the group in which the Tamil Tigers separate their fighters from the general population and brainwash recruits to follow the leader’s orders without conscious choice.”

    Follow the leader’s orders without conscious choice. Sounds like a sane explanation of the insanity.

    Religion is used as a language to achieve certain goals a state or a group has as foundation to further their cause. Their root 'cause' is made of secular goals but their communication takes the language of religion. Even secularism has been used in the past as the language that leaderships have used for their cause. Take Joseph Stalin for example. He was a secular atheist with a secular state and he butchered Christians, Christian pastors and people who had a Bible at home during his reign. He was instrumental in the deaths over 15 million people and is deemed only second to Mao Zedong in the number of human deaths caused by them and their regime. And it may come as a surprise to many when they learn Joseph Stalin persecuted homosexuals by jailing them up to five years and that’s in the 20th century while the so called Muslim khalifate, the Ottoman Empire gave them full rights way back in 1858. The scale of totalitarianism tips this way and that way but what we remember top of mind is what we see every day on TV.

    Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod compiled the comprehensive book on wars in history called “Encyclopedia of Wars”, a great read, clearly shows that only 7% of all wars ever recorded in history were motivated by religion.

    Murder in the name of God

    In a nutshell, the Islamic scripture directly tells you never to take an innocent life. So says the Quran in chapter 5 verse 32 - “It is because of this that we have decreed for the Children of Israel: “Anyone who kills a person who has not committed murder, or who has not committed corruption in the land; then it is as if he has killed all the people! And whoever spares a life, then it is as if he has given life to all the people. “

    Now notice that this verse says as a blanket statement that a person who has not committed murder should not be killed or even as a government give a death sentence. But there is a phrase here that many people misunderstand that says “or who has not committed corruption in the land” which is open for interpretation. The Arabic phrase “Al Fasadhu Fil Ardh (الفساد في الأرض)”, or corruption in the land has a definition which a lot of people have ignored. This maybe the boring part for the reader, but this also maybe a piercer of faith to the fanatic. Read further.

    So says the Quran in chapter 27, verses 48 to 50, - “And in the city were nine ruffians who were causing corruption in the land, and they were not reforming. They said: “Swear by God to one another that we will attack him and his family at night, …...

    Notice that it says “Swear by God”. This is what the Quran is saying by the phrase “Spreading corruption in the land”. These are the people the verse 5:32 above is speaking about and they are very clearly explained.

    So it should be evident, that their claim of murdering innocents shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’, calls for Gods wrath on them, and the penalty is nothing but death. You murderer, your Quran is mandating a death sentence to you purely for murdering people using Gods name.

    Bottomline: If you say Allah/God and kill an innocent human being, you are the scum of the earth according to the Quran. YOU!

    Conspiracy theories aside, a firm believer in Bin Laden and Al Qaeeda’s connection to the world trade centre bombings in the USA Robert A. Pape says in his book Dying to Win, the one book that has the most extensive research and data collection on suicide terrorism, “However, the presumed connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism is misleading and may be encouraging domestic and foreign policies likely to worsen America’s situation and to harm many Muslims needlessly”.

    "just Like Today: Islam must be spread by force" - Robert Spencer

    How do these people make their living off this fear? Is it real? Is it an industry?
     
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  2. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    I think we need to be having a much more intelligent and constructive dialogue about what Islam is and isn't. On the one hand there is hatred and a distorted understanding of Islam. On the other hand, there is naivety about some of the less pleasant aspects of Islam such as Sharia law. Many Muslims hold strong ideas about Sharia law. I was naïve until it was recently highlighted to me by this Pew Survey. There are aspects of Sharia law that are abhorrent to Westerners such as myself.

    Muslim Beliefs About Sharia

    Is that Islamophobia on my part?
     
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  3. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    You don't seem to have a full comprehension of Sharia law, its only a few obscure elements of Sharia law that people object to, Islamic Divorce court is Sharia law for instance, it protects the rights of the wife, etc.
     
  4. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    What is your understanding of Shariah?

    Saying something like you did about Shariah is like saying the same thing about "Law". Your statement is to vague and general to make any assessment about it.
     
  5. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    I think that for the most part non-Muslims assume largely the best about Islaam, somewhat naively, while Muslims ... I guess Muslims tend to also assume the best while going out of their way to gloss over the very serious flaws of their doctrine.

    Islaam does not so much promote terrorism, hatred and violence as it goes out of its way to be fertile ground to those temptations - far more, I must say, than a random person would have.

    In some ways that is far worse than actively promoting those dangers, because there is no accountability, no responsibility, and no regard for the moral and intellectual integrity of Muslims. By taking as a truism that Islaam must be morally valid no matter what the facts indicate, they put themselves in grave danger.
     
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  6. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    spiritual anti-theist : )
    I object to Sharia being misogynistic, and homophobic, and supremacist and anti-secular.
     
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  7. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. And facts are against you though you speak of facts. I didn't expect this kind of ignorance here to be frank.
     
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  8. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Which Shariah?
     
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  9. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Sharia isn't just law. Its law that many Muslims believe is based on the inerrant Word from God's final Messenger to mankind, Muhammad. That law as its understood has aspects related to blasphemy, apostasy and condign punishments for various offences such as sexual misconduct and theft. If you took the time to read the link I provided it includes the belief that it should be applied to all citizens, not just Muslims.

    Do you feel Wikipedia has provided a reasonable summary?

    Sharia - Wikipedia
     
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  10. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Yet again, your comment is too general. Too vague. Yes I read that link. Its featured by many. Everyone uses it. Like Bill Maher. Used to seeing this brother.

    You use the word Shariah like throwing any other word. But which Shariah are you speaking about? Its like saying "law". Okay if you wish to rephrase that call it "divine law". Is that all that the OP is affected by?
     
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  11. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to say this but do you even know how ignorant and superficial you sound?
     
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  12. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    I'm not a Muslim @firedragon so educate me. Educate us all. That's the idea of RF. We can talk in a civil and respectful manner for fellowship and to learn about our respective beliefs. I'm keen to learn about Islam, truly.
     
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  13. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Brother. Some of the most informed scholars are not Muslim. You dont have to be Muslim to analyse to that depth. I didnt mean to be disrespectful and I apologise for coming out that way and I frankly expected you to be beyond this.

    Anyway, what you made was a statement. Not an inquiry. And your claim is irrelevant to the OP which is speaking about exactly what your sentiment represents. You have been influenced the same "Islamaphobia" I spoke of in the OP.

    Let me also make a statement and let's see how you would respond to that.

    "There is no Shariah that persecutes homosexuals".

    What do you say about that?
     
    #13 firedragon, Sep 18, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  14. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    I appreciate your apology.

    If you read my first post I did ask a question specifically about Islamophobia. I explained how I perceived Sharia (rightly or wrongly). There are aspects to Sharia that do concern many people in the West. Some of my Baha'i friends fled Iran after the Iranian revolution in 1979. I spoke to an Iranian women online recently who converted from Islam to the Baha'i Faith but was extremely worried about apostasy laws in her country. As you will appreciate converting from Islam to another religion is not easy in some parts of the world.

    My point in asking the question as I did, was to bring attention to an aspect of Islam that does cause concern for Westerners such as myself. So perhaps some recommended online resources from a more neutral source would be helpful if Wikipedia is too biased.

    As you may appreciate I'm slightly atypical for Western men in my country. That is because I follow a religion that is often not well understood and many people have never heard of. One aspect of being a Baha'i is we believe Muhammad to be a Manifestation of God and the Quran to be the authenticated repository of the Word of God. I have a copy of the Quran by my bedside but that has been over two years. I feel I've learnt a lot about Islam over that time and part of my education is online chats such as this one.

    So I'm genuinely interested in a dialogue about Islam. Perhaps I can be a little prickly at times, especially when I consider people I know who have been adversely affected by Islam's dark side. However I also believe Muhammad brought a great light to the world through the Holy Quran.

    Good on you for bringing up an important topic for many of us to consider.

    Its an interesting question to consider. I'm married with children and definitely heterosexual. I wonder what it is like for people who identify as being gay to be Muslim. I imagine in some parts of the Muslim world it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to be openly gay in a similar way as New Zealand. Is that because of Sharia law? I would presume so.
     
  15. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Great. I appreciate that. But frankly, none of this is relevant to the OP. You should understand the post. Lets say that Shariah is the most atrocious, nonsensical, murderous idea in the world (just for explanation), still, the world has seen only 7% of all wars ever written down in history to have been motivated by religion. And mind you, these wars include all religions including Buddhism, Christianity, etc. What ever this so called "Shariah" is, yet again the biggest and most murderous terrorist group that killed 180,000 innocent people, and carried out the most number of suicide attacks were secular, Leninist, run by a Christian, who was also practicing Hinduism. What the Shariah is, one of the biggest murders in the world was Joseph Stalin, the atheist. Whatever the Shariah is! Do you understand? So the Shariah is irrelevant.

    The Shariah is a great tool used by the writers who sell books by writing to sentiments created by the aversion they wish to butter up and keep going and thats one of the reasons mind you that top of mind awareness about these things stunts scholarly exploration.

    Nevertheless in order to you respect your query, I made a statement. Based on your response I will respond so that you will know better instantaneously. How about the one statement? "There is no Shariah that persecutes homosexuals". How would you comprehend that?
     
  16. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    That is belittling and violating RF Rule8# quite a bit

    Not helping your case to promote a positive view about Islam. More the opposite. Muslims talked to me like this a lot. Not right.
     
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  17. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Great. Thanks.
     
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  18. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    That seems very good to me
    So if you believe in your above Koran verse you will agree with me, that below verse is wrong, am I right?




    Because if Allah's Apostle himself said to kill apostates, it's obvious that Muslims who believe in this apostle do what he says in below verse

    I found below quote in link from Sahih Bukhari:
    Sahih Bukhari : Book of "Blood Money"
    Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17

     
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  19. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Oh btw, I just need to say this in response to your comment. If you read through the OP you will see that the attempt is not to "promote a positive view about Islam".
     
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  20. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    Islam would not need to use made up words like Islamophobia and promote blasphemy laws if it was as decent as they would have us believe.
     
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