Islamaphobia

[Dawnofhope]

What aspects of Sharia do you find to be abhorrent?

Some Christians believe in Old Testament laws being put in place, even with public executions for actions such as adultery and homosexuality and more.

Baha'i believes in laws from God and a quite severe penalty list.

What is the difference?

If you took the time to read the thread, the issue isn’t the existence of severe punishments in sacred texts such as the Quran and Torah. The issue is that they are still applied in many countries worldwide and relatively high proportions of Muslims believe they should be applied not just to Muslims, but everyone. Can you name a Christian country that currently applies the death penalty for apostasy, blasphemy, adultery or homosexuality based on the Bible?

 

[Dawnofhope]

It is true that Sharia applies a strict penal system in Islam
But this law is found in the Torah (bible) and the Gospel, and we find many unforgiving laws such as Hammurabi

In the stories of Prophet Muhammad
The Prophet Muhammad opposed retribution for their mercy

When Omar ibn al-Khattab ruled the Muslims and Muslims were hungers in a year they called it the year of the hunger
A thief's hand was not cut because he was in an emergency rule

I mean that Islam deals with mercy and not from the first time

any person that changes the religion of Islam to any religion that does not get kill
But it was his incident that there were people who were fighting Islam and inciting from the inside for the treachery of the Prophet to kill him, so they were warned and did not stop until he ordered to kill them after they almost closed killed Muhammad

And this is something that is happening even in our modern world issues of secret liquidation from the rich in the West and in the East to opponents

Many of the crimes suspected of being liquidated as a result of people continuing with negative propaganda against powerful parties have been documented, even in foreign films.

There are verses in the Koran proving that many lived after turned out of Islam, but God promised them the torment of hell on the Day of Resurrection

There is a problem in the understanding of Muslims of their religion on the one hand
The exploitation of others for the gaps of Muslims for their agendas

I believe both the Quran and Torah were revealed by God and the laws were applicable for the era in which they were spoken. That era in history is long gone and the world is very different. Some Mosaic and Sharia laws are clearly unsuitable for the modern era.

 

[oldbadger]

If you took the time to read the thread, the issue isn’t the existence of severe punishments in sacred texts such as the Quran and Torah. The issue is that they are still applied in many countries worldwide and relatively high proportions of Muslims believe they should be applied not just to Muslims, but everyone. Can you name a Christian country that currently applies the death penalty for apostasy, blasphemy, adultery or homosexuality based on the Bible?

I was responding to your post, about Sharia.

I cannot name a Bahai or Christian country that enforces all possible Bahai or Christian law. 5 Islamic countries can still execute for the above offences.

But Bahauallah did make it very very clear to everybody that they should know and keep the laws of the country which they live in.

Most criticisms of Sharia where I live is that groups of Muslims take to the streets to enforce Sharia. This sounds very bad but it is legal as long as it is carried out within UK legislation. Many folks who don't have warrants carry out such duties here. But since 2005 the power of civilians to detain offenders has reduced massively, so it's more difficult for civilians to do this kind of thing now.

I would not want to to live in a World that was dominated by Islam, I am not a Muslim, but that goes for such a World dominated by Bahai or Christianity. Those would all be dangerous conditions for me to live within.

So please don't expect that any debate that could criticise Islam would leave any vacuums for Bahai to fall in to.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I was responding to your post, about Sharia.

I cannot name a Bahai or Christian country that enforces all possible Bahai or Christian law. 5 Islamic countries can still execute for the above offences.

But Bahauallah did make it very very clear to everybody that they should know and keep the laws of the country which they live in.

Most criticisms of Sharia where I live is that groups of Muslims take to the streets to enforce Sharia. This sounds very bad but it is legal as long as it is carried out within UK legislation. Many folks who don't have warrants carry out such duties here. But since 2005 the power of civilians to detain offenders has reduced massively, so it's more difficult for civilians to do this kind of thing now.

I would not want to to live in a World that was dominated by Islam, I am not a Muslim, but that goes for such a World dominated by Bahai or Christianity. Those would all be dangerous conditions for me to live within.

So please don't expect that any debate that could criticise Islam would leave any vacuums for Bahai to fall in to.

You may need to revise your figures.

As of 2014, about a quarter of the world’s countries and territories (26%) had anti-blasphemy laws or policies, of which 13 nations, all Muslim-majority, have the death penalty for apostasy.

Apostasy - Wikipedia

If someone wishes to resign from the Baha’i Faith or become a member of another they are completely free to do so. There is no shunning and there should be no coercion in regards to one’s religious beliefs including their right to have none.

 

[oldbadger]

You may need to revise your figures.

As of 2014, about a quarter of the world’s countries and territories (26%) had anti-blasphemy laws or policies, of which 13 nations, all Muslim-majority, have the death penalty for apostasy.

Apostasy - Wikipedia

If someone wishes to resign from the Baha’i Faith or become a member of another they are completely free to do so. There is no shunning and there should be no coercion in regards to one’s religious beliefs including their right to have none.

Nobody likes such dreadful punishments for what are mostly perceived to be personal decisions.

But, again, very few Islamic countries execute apostates these days, even though the 'offence' is still on statute books.

But as already mentioned, Fundamental Christian and Baha'i laws can be pretty horrible.

If you think your religion is more humanistic, I don't think it is much better

 

[j1i]

I believe both the Quran and Torah were revealed by God and the laws were applicable for the era in which they were spoken. That era in history is long gone and the world is very different. Some Mosaic and Sharia laws are clearly unsuitable for the modern era.

Judgments that change with time are judgments based on custom and habit; Because the changing times change the needs of people, and based on this change also changes the custom and habit and change the custom and habit provisions change, unlike judgments based on legitimate evidence that was not built on custom and habit, they do not change.
This point was a dispute between Muslims

Because they believe that these provisions of the Bible and the Koran must be respected because they are from God

Remains professionalism in dealing, such as not applied by making excuses professionally as was done by Muslim leaders during the times they ruled
They dealt professionally in preventing the enforcement of Sharia rulings because of the lack of sufficient evidence as a kind of compassion

No one can practice divine laws even in the time of Jesus or the time of Moses because he is painful and powerful

 

[firedragon]

You may need to revise your figures.

As of 2014, about a quarter of the world’s countries and territories (26%) had anti-blasphemy laws or policies, of which 13 nations, all Muslim-majority, have the death penalty for apostasy.

Apostasy - Wikipedia

If someone wishes to resign from the Baha’i Faith or become a member of another they are completely free to do so. There is no shunning and there should be no coercion in regards to one’s religious beliefs including their right to have none.

You are equating some number of countries with the whole of the Bahai faith to say "mine is better".

Thats a very bad equation. You should consider doctrine, scripture and what they say. Argue if these things are correct enough to make them jurisprudence. As you have said before, the Quran says "La ikraaha fiddheeni". Quran is against apostasy laws. So people practicing it doesn't make it Gods law. People claiming it doesn't make scriptural truth.

The bible instead has direct apostasy laws. Christians dont practice it. Neither do the Jews. But this is found in the scripture. Even that is not a good enough reason to compare.

Quran uses the word Karaha, ikraaha. It means there is no hold/force/restriction/compulsion. When you say la Ikraaha it means there is no pulling me this way or that way, no pushing into something or keeping me there. People don't follow the Quran.

 

[Notanumber]

Spoiler: “Islam Is RIGHT About Women“

 

[Dawnofhope]

You are equating some number of countries with the whole of the Bahai faith to say "mine is better".

Thats a very bad equation. You should consider doctrine, scripture and what they say. Argue if these things are correct enough to make them jurisprudence. As you have said before, the Quran says "La ikraaha fiddheeni". Quran is against apostasy laws. So people practicing it doesn't make it Gods law. People claiming it doesn't make scriptural truth.

The bible instead has direct apostasy laws. Christians dont practice it. Neither do the Jews. But this is found in the scripture. Even that is not a good enough reason to compare.

Quran uses the word Karaha, ikraaha. It means there is no hold/force/restriction/compulsion. When you say la Ikraaha it means there is no pulling me this way or that way, no pushing into something or keeping me there. People don't follow the Quran.

My comments were responses to another who claimed the Baha’i Faith is similar to Islam in regards Sharia law.

Islamaphobia

Islamaphobia

My responses were to highlight the Baha’i laws in regards apostasy are not even remotely similar to Islam, particularly as its practiced in some countries. For one thing we don’t have apostasy laws, for another we maintain good relationships with those who choose to leave our faith and do not shun.

I share you belief that apostasy laws are not based on the Quran, but many Muslims will find support within the Quran itself for taking the view that Muhammad would approve of killing one who decides Islam is no longer for him.

Until you can fully acknowledge why this is a problem for Islam and Muslims generally, then anything else you have to say sounds empty.

 

[Wasp]

Until you can fully acknowledge why this is a problem for Islam and Muslims generally, then anything else you have to say sounds empty.

I fear the entire topic may seem empty to many Muslims because it is so often accompanied by claims that islam has faults, the Quran needs to be edited or that Muhammad lied etc.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I fear the entire topic may seem empty to many Muslims because it is so often accompanied by claims that islam has faults, the Quran needs to be edited or that Muhammad lied etc.

As far as I'm concerned the Quran is the Word of God and Muhammad is the Messenger of God. Islam is a blanket term that covers what the community is now including those who use Muhammad and the Quran to justify terrorism and severe punishments as per Islamic Jurisprudence. So Islam clearly has faults.

Obviously many of Islam's critics won't distinguish what Islam has become from Muhammad (Praised by upon Him) and the Holy Quran. It behoves Muslims who wish to have a more constructive dialogue to demonstrate why Islam has become corrupted in some parts of the world and how this has nothing to do with Muhammad and the Quran. Dismissing Westerners concerns about Islam's association with terrorism and human rights abuses aggravates division rather than promotes shared understanding and constructive dialogue.

 

[firedragon]

My comments were responses to another who claimed the Baha’i Faith is similar to Islam in regards Sharia law.

Islamaphobia

Islamaphobia

My responses were to highlight the Baha’i laws in regards apostasy are not even remotely similar to Islam, particularly as its practiced in some countries. For one thing we don’t have apostasy laws, for another we maintain good relationships with those who choose to leave our faith and do not shun.

I share you belief that apostasy laws are not based on the Quran, but many Muslims will find support within the Quran itself for taking the view that Muhammad would approve of killing one who decides Islam is no longer for him.

Until you can fully acknowledge why this is a problem for Islam and Muslims generally, then anything else you have to say sounds empty.

Ah. I understand.

Nevertheless, I know the verses you are speaking of in the latter part of your post. No. There is nothing about apostasy innn those verses. And its not the Muslims who take them to justify apostasy laws, its the non-muslims who take them to claim that Quran has murder of apostates in it. Mostly misrepresented and cherry picked anyway.

Quran has to be understood from the context of the chapter, surrounding verses, and the whole book. If at one place it says no compulsion in religion another cannot supersede it. It doesn't anyway.

Peace.

 

[Shad]

Can you name a Christian country that currently applies the death penalty for apostasy, blasphemy, adultery or homosexuality based on the Bible?

Italy has fines but no death penalty. Art is a common target for blasphemy cases. A number of nations have various laws on the book but do not enforce any.