Islamaphobia

[Lyndon]

Thanks for your post @Epic Beard Man
I really appreciate your advocacy for Islam and concerted efforts to seek the truth and have Islam presented fairly. I agree with most of your post. To be clear I did not claim that Sharia should be applied to everyone and I agree this misunderstanding of Sharia fuels bigotry and prejudice. What I claimed was many Muslims themselves believe Sharia should be applied to everyone. I included a link to Pew Research as evidence.


Should Sharia Apply to All Citizens?

Among Muslims who support making sharia the law of the land, most do not believe that it should be applied to non-Muslims. Only in five of 21 countries where this follow-up question was asked do at least half say all citizens should be subject to Islamic law.

The belief that sharia should extend to non-Muslims is most widespread in the Middle East and North Africa, where at least four-in-ten Muslims in all countries except Iraq (38%) and Morocco (29%) hold this opinion. Egyptian Muslims (74%) are the most likely to say it should apply to Muslims and non-Muslims alike, while 58% in Jordan hold this view.

By contrast, Muslims in Southern and Eastern Europe who favor making sharia the official law of the land are among the least likely to say it should apply to all citizens in their country. Across the nations surveyed in the region, fewer than a third take this view. This includes 22% of Russian Muslims (who were asked about the applying sharia in their country’s ethnic Muslim republics).

In other regions, opinion varies widely by country. For example, in Southeast Asia, half of Indonesian Muslims who favor sharia as the official law say it should apply to all citizens, compared with about a quarter (24%) of those in Thailand. (Thai Muslims were asked if sharia should be made the official law in the predominantly Muslim areas of the country.) Similarly, in Central Asia, a majority of Muslims in Kyrgyzstan (62%) who support making sharia the official law say it should apply to non-Muslims in their country, but far fewer in Kazakhstan (19%) agree. Meanwhile, in South Asia, Muslims who are in favor of making sharia the law of the land in Afghanistan are 27 percentage points more likely to say all citizens should be subject to Islamic law than are those in Pakistan (61% in Afghanistan vs. 34% in Pakistan).

Muslim Beliefs About Sharia

Why are you repeating this and who made Pew Research group the authority on Islamic belief???

 

[England my lionheart]

You have a hard time replying to an intelligent response, don't you!!

You seem to have a hard time replying to anything.

 

[LuisDantas]

You have a hard time replying to an intelligent response, don't you!!

Try me whenever you want, Lyndon.

 

[firedragon]

The Baha’i Faith is considered an apostate religion by many Muslims

Brother. Most Muslims dont know anything about the Bahai Muslims. They have not even heard of Bahai Muslims.

But, that doesn't mean the Muslims you know about especially from Iran would not consider the Bahai faith as heretical or whatever. This heresy business is there in all religions and has been there forever. Even Buddhists have been killing each other calling each other Heretics. Thats how human beings are.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Why are you repeating this and who made Pew Research group the authority on Islamic belief???

If you follow the conversations on this thread more carefully then the reason for including this information would be clear. Pew research seems reliable and credible.

Pew Research - Media Bias/Fact Check

Why not counter with a source that seems more credible to you or argue for an alternative narrative based on the data presented?

 

[icehorse]

Why are you repeating this and who made Pew Research group the authority on Islamic belief???

Dude, these large polls summarize WHAT MILLIONS OF MUSLIMS BELIEVE.

If you believe in statistics and sampling, then you can take a large poll like this one (~40,000 Muslims were polled I believe?) and do some simple math and come up with reasonable estimates that 10s or 100s of millions of Muslims have these attitudes about Sharia. It's just math.

 

[Lyndon]

They should do a poll of how many Islamophobic bigots there are, actually I checked online and Pew did do research on that topic, and they did a lot of studies of which you are handpicking small segments of their research to support what appears to be an Islamophobic agenda. pure and simple.

Pew: Christian, Muslim persecution most widespread

 

[Notanumber]

1. I haven’t done research on it because it just seems like common sense that if a society exists where non-Muslim ideas are actively polemicised and critics and propagates of competing ideas are silenced under blasphemy laws, Islam monopolises the ideas marketplace. Compound this by forcing retention of converts who try Islam out to find its not for them and you have compulsion in religion.

2. I haven’t done the calculations myself, but in the video

the author calculates the global average of Muslims who believe in death for apostasy at 31%. If you don’t trust his calculations the statistics are available here Muslim Beliefs About Sharia

3. The OP was entitled “Islamophobia” I’m pointing out that there is more to be concerned about in Islamic society than suicide bombing alone.

Thank you for linking to that thoughtful and informative video.

It makes you wonder if the hijab, niqab & burka are designed to cover up the marks left by the beatings inflicted by the wearer’s husband.

Abdul Rahman, Afgan citizen, Sentence: death, Crime: converting to Christianity, Outcome: granted asylum by Italy.

Trial judge in the Abdul Rahman case:

‘The Prophet Muhammad has said several times that those who convert from Islam should be killed if they refuse to come back.’

‘Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance, kindness and integrity. That is why we have told him if regrets what he did, then we will forgive him.’

This is the measure of peace – ‘Think what we tell you to think and we won’t kill you.’

‘Respect for religion’ has become a code phrase meaning ‘fear of religion’. Religions, like all their ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect. – Salman Rushdie

 

[Dawnofhope]

Brother. Most Muslims dont know anything about the Bahai Muslims. They have not even heard of Bahai Muslims.

But, that doesn't mean the Muslims you know about especially from Iran would not consider the Bahai faith as heretical or whatever. This heresy business is there in all religions and has been there forever. Even Buddhists have been killing each other calling each other Heretics. Thats how human beings are.

That’s right. The Baha’i Faith is just another complaining group who doesn’t matter because our numbers are so small and Muslims such as yourself haven’t heard of us. So if even the Buddhists label others as heretical then its Ok for Muslims to do the same?

Actually the Baha’i Faith is the largest religious minority in Iran. The Iranian constitution extends freedoms to other religions such as Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians but not to the Baha’is. We are not a sect of Islam btw but an independent religion.

The Baha’is are Iran’s largest religious minority, numbering up to 350,000. They are not recognized by the constitution, are not protected under the law, and are hindered from practicing their faith.
Baha’is—an independent world religion—are viewed as apostates by the Iranian government due to the Islamic belief that Mohammed was the final prophet. Bahai’s follow Bahá’u’lláh, who founded the faith in the 19th century. In July 2013, Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei issued a new fatwa against the Baha’is. He warned Iranians to “avoid any kind of association with this misguided and misleading sect,” according to the news website Tasnim.

Iran Minorities 1: Diverse Religions

 

[firedragon]

. I was told that a phobia is when someone has an irrational fear of something and they know that the fear is irrational but they still fear it. Its a psychological condition.

That definition is not correct. A phobia IS an irrational fear of something, but there is no requirement that the person who has the phobia recognizes that the fear is irrational. A person can have an irrational fear of spiders, but not see their fear as irrational.

Alright. In that case I should agree with this phrase wholeheartedly as an exact scientific definition of what was addressed in the OP. You cleared a doubt I had. Thanks.

Anyway I though I should tell you that If you read DIAGNOSTIC AND STATISTICAL MANUAL OF MENTAL DISORDERS by. the APA it will argue that patients had to recognise their fears as unreasonable.

But that doesn't matter. Thanks nevertheless.

 

[firedragon]

That’s right. The Baha’i Faith is just another complaining group who doesn’t matter because our numbers are so small and Muslims such as yourself haven’t heard of us. So if even the Buddhists label others as heretical then its Ok for Muslims to do the same?

Wow. Is that what I said? Brother. You twisted what I said. Completely.

What I said is

Brother. Most Muslims dont know anything about the Bahai Muslims. They have not even heard of Bahai Muslims.

"But, that doesn't mean the Muslims you know about especially from Iran would not consider the Bahai faith as heretical or whatever. This heresy business is there in all religions and has been there forever. Even Buddhists have been killing each other calling each other Heretics. Thats how human beings are."

Which was in reply to your comment about many Muslims consider the bahai faith as an apostate faith.

I wasn't justifying anything.

Absurd.

 

[firedragon]

This post is an excellent show of character of characters.

 

[firedragon]

It makes you wonder if the hijab, niqab & burka are designed to cover up the marks left by the beatings inflicted by the wearer’s husband.

Well, the vile will wonder that way.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Wow. Is that what I said? Brother. You twisted what I said. Completely.

What I said is

Brother. Most Muslims dont know anything about the Bahai Muslims. They have not even heard of Bahai Muslims.

"But, that doesn't mean the Muslims you know about especially from Iran would not consider the Bahai faith as heretical or whatever. This heresy business is there in all religions and has been there forever. Even Buddhists have been killing each other calling each other Heretics. Thats how human beings are."

Which was in reply to your comment about many Muslims consider the bahai faith as an apostate faith.

I wasn't justifying anything.

Absurd.

I’m just reflecting how dismissive your statement came across to me personally. Say if a woman from Uzbekistan discloses to another she was sexually assaulted, and the response is “Well lots of people including men get sexually assaulted all the time. Besides, your from Uzbekistan and whose heard of that place.” What’s a gal to think? It doesn’t matter what’s said after that. She ain’t gonna hear a word of it.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Maybe by Peter and Constantine,not by a so called prophet though

Irrelevant. Christianity has had its fingers in politics just as much as Islam.

 

[England my lionheart]

Irrelevant. Christianity has had its fingers in politics just as much as Islam.

But not by a self professed prophet,unlike Islam Christianity wasn't led by it's prophet,muhammed did a land deal in yathrib/Medina,war booty abounded in his actual lifetime,Jesus (if there was an actual Jesus)had been long gone before Christianity became a problem.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

@Epic Beard Man , @firedragon , stating that there are facts supporting the dignity of Islaam is no substitute for actually having them.

Far as facts are concerned, Islaam is... very difficult to respect or to defend, unfortunately.

Not so difficult when you get to know some Muslims, though. Remarkably, despite Maine having a pretty low diversity I've gotten to know some very fine Muslim folks who practice their religion in ways that are as moderate and inspiring as any other.

Are there large groups if Muslims in Middle Eastern countries wanting to enact strict religious laws and destroy all I hold dear? Probably. But this is likely true of other groups as well, and considering the damage we have done in the Middle East, I can sympathize with some of the hatred (even while I don't condone it).

 

[Guitar's Cry]

But not by a self professed prophet,unlike Islam Christianity wasn't led by it's prophet,muhammed did a land deal in yathrib/Medina,war booty abounded in his actual lifetime,Jesus (if there was an actual Jesus)had been long gone before Christianity became a problem.

I mean, look through the Old Testament...

At any rate the fact remains that violence and tyranny through Christianity occurs regardless of whether there was a Christ humble and contrite. The Christianity we know and love today has as much blood in its history as Islam.

The root is likely in our own violent human nature. The fact is that many millions use both Islam and Christianity as an inspiration to live better lives. How Islam is practiced, like any religion, is a reflection of the person or culture's unique place in the world. As an American, I have no problem with my fellow Islamic citizens.

 

[England my lionheart]

I mean, look through the Old Testament...

At any rate the fact remains that violence and tyranny through Christianity occurs regardless of whether there was a Christ humble and contrite. The Christianity we know and love today has as much blood in its history as Islam.

The root is likely in our own violent human nature. The fact is that many millions use both Islam and Christianity as an inspiration to live better lives. How Islam is practiced, like any religion, is a reflection of the person or culture's unique place in the world. As an American, I have no problem with my fellow Islamic citizens.

Unfortunately religion is a great conduit for violence and tyranny,there are two religions that profess to be the best and proselytize about it,Jesus if he existed apperently died and Christianity was born,muhammed was alive when Islam was born,you can read the ahadith on his exploits,I have no love for either religion and see how both are powerful tools of control.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Unfortunately religion is a great conduit for violence and tyranny,there are two religions that profess to be the best and proselytize about it,Jesus if he existed apperently died and Christianity was born,muhammed was alive when Islam was born,you can read the ahadith on his exploits,I have no love for either religion and see how both are powerful tools of control.

I think we likely agree on this, actually. While I still find meaning and inspiration in some Christian mythology and find elements of Islamic culture beautiful and meaningful, I have no loyalty to either one.

At the same time I feel no particular reason to single out Islam in a political climate with some clear Islamic bigotry.