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Featured Is according to Jews everything God's will?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by ayin, Dec 22, 2020.

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  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Pharisees rejecting Jesus had to do with their desires of the Messiah delivering them from Roman oppression. Michael Brown – Tough Questions Answered

     
  2. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Well, IF the messiah had come at THAT time, that is what the messiah would have done. Like I said, the main thing about the Messiah is that he will reign from jerusalem during the Messianic Era. You don't have that if the Romans are occupying the place.
     
  3. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    BTW, you replied before I finished my edit, so here are the verses I looked up for you:


    Isaiah 41:8
    “But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend,"

    Isaiah 44:1
    Israel the Chosen
    “But now listen, Jacob, my servant, Israel, whom I have chosen."

    Isaiah 44:21
    “Remember these things, Jacob, for you, Israel, are my servant. I have made you, you are my servant; Israel, I will not forget you.

    Isaiah 45:4
    For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen, I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honor, though you do not

    He said to me, “You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will display my splendor.”
     
  4. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Jesus will do that at his second coming. Jewish Christian - Wikipedia

     
  5. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    God saying that Israel was his servant doesn't mean that Israel is the suffering servant mentioned in Isaiah 53.
     
  6. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    I've gutted this idea so many times it's not funny.
     
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  7. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Yes it does. The rules for composition work in Isaiah just as they work in any other work of literature -- when a consistent metaphor is used throughout a piece of writing, it refers to the same thing.
     
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  8. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    How are two messiahs more likely than the second coming of one messiah?
     
  9. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    When Israel was suffering the nations weren't healed. Israel didn't pay for our iniquities or die for our sins. Israel wasn't punished willingly. God used other nations to judge them.

     
  10. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    the idea of two messiahs was explored long ago and tossed out as having no merit.
     
  11. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    It's not about Israel suffering for the nations. Its about the obedient faithful remnant of Israel suffering on behalf of Israel.

    You say so many things that just don't plug in. the words non sequitur come to mind.
     
  12. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The righteous remnant of that time, or the righteous remnant in the entire history of Israel? The righteous remnant in the entire history of Israel mirrors the Bible saying narrow is the way that leads to life and while the children of Israel are like the sand of the seashore only a remnant will be saved. Matthew 7:13-14

    Isaiah 10:22

     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Israel didn't deliver the nations and Israel wasn't a man of sorrows.

     
  14. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    God's servant has a role having to do with Israel being chosen to make God known to the Gentiles. God chose the Jews through whom he would send Jesus-so that everyone would know of God. The servant was to make God known. The servant would enter into our suffering to remove the barrier of sin between God and people.
     
  15. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    You didn't read my post, or you would not have responded to something I didn't say. Please scroll back and try again.

    Would you like me to link you to a Jewish YouTube video about Isaiah 53? Just wondering, cuz personally I hate it when people try to substitute videos for good writing.
     
  16. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The discussion about the suffering servant and Israel being the faithful remnant
     
  17. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    This is not even a complete sentence. I have no idea what you are responding to or trying to say. Either you forgot the word "is," or there was more to add on to the end of the fragment.
     
  18. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The suffering servant being the remnant doesn't make sense because the remnant is a not a person. Israel cannot be the suffering servant because in verse 49 who the servant is changes.
     
  19. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    All throughout Isaiah, Israel is referred to as "my servant." Israel is often spoken of in the singular, i.e. that Israel is God's bride, etc. So there is no problem really with Isaiah 53 speaking in the singular.
     
  20. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    There are details in the text, like the servant of God suffering, that hint that Israel is not the suffering servant. God used other nations to judge Israel. He allowed them to invade Israel as a consequence of their actions. They didn't suffer without measure or cause.

    Who is God's Suffering Servant? The Rabbinic Interpretation of Isaiah 53 | Outreach Judaism

     
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