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Featured Is according to Jews everything God's will?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by ayin, Dec 22, 2020.

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  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Suspended sentences are often eventually punished.
     
  2. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    For the sake of argument, let's assume temporarily that what you say is true. Can you still not see that, ON THE ON THE WHOLE the law is still law and that as such it creates an orderly just society?
     
  3. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    ROFL No they arent
     
  4. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    We;ve been through this how many times? We are not going to agree.
     
  5. Joe W

    Joe W Always a godfather, never a god.

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    Laws are not inherently just. An orderly society created by enforcing laws is not inherently just. I would not call my society a just society, IndigoChild. It has sufficient justice to be different degrees of navigable, depending on who you are. But it still contains a considerable amount of injustice. And yet, I would still say that it is far more just that almost any ancient civilization.

    If your god exists, and he created the laws of the Torah, then he was effectively a human contemporary to that time in outlook and understanding and morality. Nothing more.
     
  6. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The atonement sacrifices were types and shadows of the coming Messiah.
     
  7. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    I think that law and order is a heck of a lot better than the kind of revenge that prevails in anarchy. Under law and order, murder and theft etc. are punished. In my book, that makes society a whole lot more just. It's an eye for an eye. Under revenge, it's two eyes and the eyes of your children for an eye. You don't have to have every law to be just for this to be true.

    I'm wondering, where do you live, that you feel your society is so unjust?
     
  8. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Nah. That's just a Christian idea. It's not in the Tanakh.
     
  9. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Ezekiel 18:21-23 is similar to the Christian idea of striving and trusting God. Doing what is just and right involves trusting God.

     
  10. Joe W

    Joe W Always a godfather, never a god.

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    I'm sorry, but are you denying the fact that unjust laws exist; both in their content and their systemic societal application?

    The United States of America.
     
  11. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Nothing in the verse you quoted states that atonement sacrifices were shadows of what the Messiah would do.
     
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  12. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    I'm not denying unjust laws exist. I'm saying that a just society as a whole can exist despite the occasional unjust law.

    I also live in the US, and you are mischaracterizing it. There is the occasional unjust law, but it is not typical. The US is a just society.
     
  13. Joe W

    Joe W Always a godfather, never a god.

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    And I am saying that it cannot. That the best a society that is structured on a partially sound foundation can be, is partially just.

    All three of those statements are incorrect.
     
  14. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Striving and trusting God is related to the Messiah because Job believed that God was his redeemer and would walk the earth.
     
  15. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Again with Job's redeemer.
    1. Job's redeemer did not exist
    2. Job's redeemer was not the messiah or God.
     
  16. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    A Messiah is a Redeemer. The Lord laid upon Jesus the iniquity of us all. Job said that his redeemer would walk the earth, and Jesus walked the earth.

    There is no evidence in the text that what Job said about the redeemer was a rumination.
     
  17. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    No, the Messiah is not a redeemer.
     
  18. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Old Testament sacrifices foreshadowed Jesus dying for our sins. Messianic Prophecies Fulfilled by Yeshua

    The Tanakh also says that the Messiah would die by crucifixion.

     
  19. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    It is not in the Tanakh if you are quoting NT verses!!!!

    The only verse you quoted from the Tanakh was from Psalm 22:16, and you quoted a very bad translation of it. Here it is properly translated:

    For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.

    Nothing there about crucifixion.
     
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  20. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    I mentioned parallels between the New Testament and the Tanakh, I didn't quote the New Testament as the Tanakh.
     
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