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Featured Is according to Jews everything God's will?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by ayin, Dec 22, 2020.

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  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The suffering servant is innocent and sinless-that's not true of Israel. The suffering servant was humble and voluntarily submits. Israel never voluntarily submitted to suffering. Israel never suffered for other peoples sins.
     
  2. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    How did Israel bear the guilt of many? Was Jesus the "Suffering Servant" of Isaiah 53?

     
  3. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    There is no exact divine equivalent to how God and a legal system would deal with the wrong thing being done, because there is no exact equivalent in human law of sin separating people from God.
     
  4. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Following Jesus and being Jewish isn't following two religions at the same time because following Jesus is a relationship, not a religion. If Christianity is the truth then Judaism is also the truth

     
  5. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The term Christianity did not exist during the time of Jesus. People believed in Jesus. Christianity as a separate belief system from Judaism came about from there being Gentiles who believed in Jesus and Jewish people who didn't believe in Jesus.
     
  6. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    The whole Christian movement did not exist at the time of Jesus. Jesus was an observant Jew. He did not set out to start another religion.
     
  7. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't disprove the teachings of Jesus. To say that the teachings of Jesus are false because him and his followers weren't Christian is semantics. I know someone from a church I used to go to who said he follows the Messiah of Israel.
     
  8. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    The Messiah of Israel has not come yet. All you have is the Christian Christ, who is a totally different animal.
     
  9. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    How does the term Christian not existing at the time of Jesus mean that Jesus isn't the Messiah of Israel? There was no Christmas or Easter or churches during the time of Jesus, but many Christians don't go to church and they believe the holidays are pagan.
     
  10. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    The reason Jesus isn't the Messiah of Israel is that he didn't fulfill the Messianic prophecies in the Tanakh. Oh I know Christians say he fulfilled hundreds, but that is almost entirely them taking verses out of context and creating prophecies where none exist. There are actually very few prophecies.
     
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  11. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Old Testament mentions the Messiah having a second advent. Does the Old Testament truly predict a second advent of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

     
  12. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    No it doesn't.

    Think about it, if the Messiah could fulfill the prophecies a second time around, anyone could claim to be the Messiah. *I* could even claim to be the Messiah. No, there is no, "Hey I'm the Messiah, and I'll fulfill the prophecies next time I come." The ONLY way we will know the Messiah is that he will fulfill the prophecies -- all of them.
     
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  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    That there are false Messiahs doesn't mean that Jesus is one of them. The Antichrist will be the ultimate false Messiah.

    What is the little horn in the book of Daniel? | GotQuestions.org

     
  14. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Forget about Daniel -- it will not tell you who the messiah will be.

    The only way to know the messiah is to find someone who fulfills ALL the messianic prophecies. Jesus simply did not do that. He did not usher in an era of world peace. He did not bring all the Jews back to Israel. He did not rule from Jerusalem. Thus, he CANNOT be the messiah, no matter how much you want him to be.
     
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  15. Batya

    Batya Always Forward

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    Well not just everyone could come around a second time. :) This is kind of a subjective thing to discuss because one can't 100% prove that he will come back, and another can't 100% prove he won't.
    What about the place where it says the Messiah will come riding on a donkey's colt, and in Daniel where it says he will come on the clouds? Or do you not think Daniel is talking about the Messiah?
     
  16. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Daniel mentioned that in the future there will be a false Messiah who will speak against God and oppress his people. What is the little horn in the book of Daniel? | GotQuestions.org

    What Daniel talked about matches what the New Testament says about the Antichrist.
     
  17. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Who knows what the little horn is? That's the problem with apocalyptic literature, and is why I don't waste time studying much of Daniel. But one thing is certain--he is not anti-Jesus. Jesus is irrelevant to Daniel.

    Are you simply pasting questions from GotQuestions.org? If so please stop. I don't respond to unoriginal texts. I want to talk to YOU. I am not here to surf the web.
     
  18. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    My argument proves that NO messiah (and there will only be one) will come a second time. The job of the messiah is to rule during the messianic age. A contender will either do that or he won't. Jesus did not.

    It is said that how the Messiah arrives depends on the state of the People of Israel. If we are observant/obedient, he will arrive in glory on a horse. If we are unfaithful/disobedient, he will only come riding a donkey.
     
  19. Batya

    Batya Always Forward

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    I understand.
     
  20. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    I believe that evil exists because one third of the angels wanted to be God. If there is good, there is evil. If there a Messiah, there is an opposite-because Satan copies God.
     
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